PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION

OF WEST VIRGINIA

CHARLESTON

* * * * * * * * *

OLD STANDARD, LLC  Case No. 05-0042-S-CN

HEARING:    Tuesday, August 9, 2005

            9:33 a.m.

LOCATION:   PSC Howard M. Cunningham Hearing Room

            201 Brooks Street

            First Floor

            Charleston WV  25323

P R O C E E D I N G S

--------------------------------------------------------

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Good morning.  My name is Jon McKinney. I’m the new Chair of the Public Service Commission.  This is Ed Staats and Mike Shaw, Commissioners.  It’s interesting, this is my first time to go through this, so I’m looking forward to hearing this particular case. Case Number 05-0042-S-CN, Old Standard, LLC, application for a Certificate of Convenience and Necessity to construct, install, and operate a wastewater treatment facility in Jefferson County.

                              We will begin by taking appearances of the parties and their attorneys.  Following appearances, I will ask Counsel for parties to summarize their positions in this case.  When they have finished their summaries, the Commission will hear from members of the public.  There’s a sign-in sheet, and I’ve got a copy of the sign-in sheet, which is what I will use to call those who wish to speak.  If you have not signed yet, please see the court reporter.

                              When all of the public comment has been received, the Commission will begin the evidentiary hearing of this case.  We appreciate all of you coming here to participate.  I will now take appearances.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Good morning, Your Honor.  Appearing this morning on behalf of Old Standard, LLC, D. Dandridge McDonald from the firm of Steptoe and Johnson of Charleston.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Good morning, Your Honor.  My name is James V. Kelsh, representing the Jefferson County Public Service District. 

                              MR. FAULKER:

                              Good morning, Your Honor, my name is Scot Faulkner.  Myself and my wife, Vicky, are pro se.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Good morning, Chairman, Commissioners, my name is Ron Robertson.  I’m here on behalf of the Commission Staff.  Thank you.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Is there anyone else today who wants to make an appearance in this case?  If that’s all, then we’re ready to proceed with the public comment portion of today’s hearing.  Old Standard, are you ready to proceed with summarizing your case?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              We’re ready to proceed, Your Honor.  Good morning.  As I say, my name is Dan McDonald, attorney for Old Standard. 

                              Your Honor, this is going to be an interesting case, I think, because it involves a fairly new concept in the provision of utility service.  We might call it the build-and-donate concept.  But this is new to West Virginia.  This is one of the first, if not the first projects to embrace this idea. 

                              Jefferson County has a critical shortage of wastewater treatment plant capacity.  This shortage has virtually stopped growth in one of the most robust markets in West Virginia.  The Sheridan Estates Development, which is located along Route 340 East of Charles Town in Jefferson County is designed for approximately 180 homes.  It has been ready to sell houses for several years, but has been stymied for lack of sewer service.  Our evidence will show that many other developers and projects have been stopped because of lack of sewer. 

                              Old Standard, LLC is a development company proposing to install a 50,000 gallon per day Membrane Bio-Reactor wastewater treatment plant on company-owned land, which is an abandoned quarry in Jefferson County.  There’s a long history of the Sheridan Development’s seeking sewer system, going back to 2001 and before. 

                              Throughout these interations we have come now to this new so-called build-and-donate concept, which we believe will provide a win, win, win situation for everyone.  The developers will obtain wastewater treatment capacity for the subdivision.  The Jefferson County PSD, the public utility in the area will get a technologically superior wastewater treatment plant and all the mains at no cost, so that most of the revenues, if not all, it receives from customers will be incremental.  Jefferson County gets additional wastewater treatment plant capacity which will permit development not only in the area of the plant, but also around Charles Town, by easing pressure on the existing Charles Town Wastewater Treatment Plant.  And then of course citizens get an opportunity to buy houses and set up families.

                              Our evidence will describe the contracts between Old Standard and JCPSD, the MBR, membrane bioreactor plant, the cost of operating, its location and its environmental advantages.  PSC Staff has recommended that this Commission grant a certificate based on two conditions.  One, that Old Standard guarantee the financial feasability for the PSD.  And two, that Old Standard study the option of moving its flows to the Charles Town treatment plant.

                              Our evidence will show that we have met both of these conditions, including the conclusion that the Charles Town option is not feasible for a number of reasons.  After the Commission hears the evidence, we ask it to issue a Certificate of Convenience and Necessity for the Old Standard Wastewater Treatment Plant, approve the agreements between Old Standard and JCPSD, and entertain, after construction of the plant is completed, a petition from the District and Old Standard to transfer these assets to the District at no cost.  Thank you, sir.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Thank you.  Jefferson County.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Good morning.  My name is Jim Kelsh, representing the Jefferson County Public Service District.  The Jefferson County Public Service District currently is only a collection system, that is it collects wastewater and transmits it to Charles Town for treatment.

                              In light of the rapid expansion of development in the Jefferson County area, the District needs to move to a decentralized approach to wastewater treatment.  That is, it needs to consider and act appropriate on proposals to construct treatment facilities and rely upon treatment facilities other than Charles Town Wastewater Treatment Plant. 

                              This project is actually the first sizable facility which the District is proposing to the Commission.  The District also faces some difficulty in meeting its duty to serve Jefferson County.  The District has some of the highest rates in the state.  Currently for a homeowner using an average of 4,500 gallons, they will pay, to the District, approximately $51 per month just for sewer service.  On top of that, they will have a water bill.

                              These high rates make it difficult for the District to engage in conventional financing for projects to serve the county.  This project, as Counsel for Old Standard represented, represents a new concept and a very promising concept to assist with the expansion of wastewater treatment in Jefferson County.  This project will serve not only the Sheridan Development, but has the potential to assist the District in meeting its wastewater treatment demand needs in other places of the county. 

                              The Commission has issued an order on July --- I’m sorry, I’m not sure of the date of the order.  But anyway, the Commission asked the parties to identify witnesses. And in response to that, the four parties have identified a total of 26 witnesses.  I’ve been in practice before the Commission for five years and I can’t say that I’ve ever been involved in a case in which the Commission took the testimony of 26 witnesses, and that includes two major rate cases for the West Virginia American Water Company.

 

                              The number of witnesses may lead you to suspect that this is a very complicated case.  I beg to differ.  This case involves essentially the difficult decision of ruling upon a 100 percent grant-funded certificate project for a wastewater treatment plant which will produce the highest quality effluent in Jefferson County and the highest quality effluent ever in the state.

                              This project offers an enormous benefit to the District.  Not only will the developer donate all the capital facilities, but the developer will guarantee that the District will at least break even on operational costs.  It is expected that once growth emerges, that the District will do better than break even on this project, and that should assist its financial position.

                              This is a win-win proposition.  The District fully supports Old Standard’s application and looks forward to operating the Old Standard facility. 

                              Despite the obvious and strong benefits of the project, the interveners, the Faulkners, and the Staff Commission suggests that perhaps it might be better to transmit wastewater to Charles Town.  That is an unfavorable alternative for several reasons.  One is the tremendous uncertainty associated with relying upon the Charles Town Wastewater Treatment Plant.  The District is effectively is in a moratorium currently.  Construction is under way for expansion to that facility.  However, the list of folks who are going to use the capacity created by that expansion is quite long and it’s expected that that new capacity will be consumed quite quickly.  The plant’s further capacity are rather vague.  In any event, it is unlikely that should Old Standard construct the facilities that Staff suggests to connect to the Charles Town wastewater plant, it is unlikely that the District will be able to obtain capacity at that plant.  For these reasons, the Charles Town alternative is clearly an inferior solution. 

                              The District strongly urges the Commission to grant Old Standard a Certificate for this project.  Thank you.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              The Faulkners.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Good morning, Mr. Chairman.  This is a complex case, not a simple case.  And there are three numbers that you need to keep in mind as you hear all this testimony.  These are 178, 270 and 1,250.  178 is the number of homes currently permitted for Sheridan Subdivision, the main purpose for this Old Standard sewer.  270 is what your own Staff say is the break-even mark for this plant to be economically viable.  1,250 is the permits granted by the --- the number of units granted by the Department of Health from the West Virginia state government that says that for everything to work, the pumps, the pipes, the plant, they need this amount for the top of the line permit. 

                              We’re going to be going over these three numbers and showing that, number one, this plant will never be economically viable.  And number two, this plant will never be technologically viable.  And so these three numbers you all three need to be considering because these will become very important as the day continues.

                              Another component of today’s discussion is, you have the plant in Charles Town that is currently being built and has been allowed to go forward.  You have plants before this Commission at Bellair, and this plant on the books being --- coming before this Commission from the PSD itself at Flowing Springs.  Flowing Springs is right across the street from Sheridan, not two and a half miles away.  Bellair is a half a mile from Sheridan, not two and a half miles away. 

                              You must ask yourself, why, with Charles Town plant being expanded and the original pipe for Sheridan, which Sheridan was actually approved on

---.  I mean, you have to understand, for the last three years the developers of the Sheridan Subdivision have put forth official documents to the state government, to the county government and represented in every public hearing before the Planning Commission in Jefferson County that they would be served by the Charles Town plant.  They received building permits based upon that, so the Sheridan Subdivision has proceeded forward.  They have sold houses, they have excavated the land, they have laid pipe.  They have received every possible approval from the county government of Jefferson County without Old Standard even being whispered.  So therefore, when they say that Old Standard needs to be built so Sheridan can be built, one has to question that logic. 

 

                              So where is Old Standard being built?  Two and a half miles away, in the middle of a     rurally-zoned area and surrounded by Harpers Ferry National Historical Park.  Tourism is the second largest industry in the state, the fastest growing industry in the state, and currently represents close to 22 percent of the entire employment base in Jefferson County.  So to put a plant which on the surface seems to be designed to stimulate intense residential growth in the very area that is the main tourist gateway to the eastern part of the state, where 22 percent of our employment base is based on, one needs to weigh that as to, is this truly a public convenience.  And we will be going through that in detail. 

                              But the key is, remember the numbers.  Is this financially viable?  Can it ever be financially viable?  And secondly, can it be technologically viable, because there are not enough homes and there will never be enough homes to make either of these numbers work.  Thank you.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Chairman, Commissioners, basically what Staff had did in this approach, in looking at the Old Standard certificate, Staff’s major focus is looking at both orderly and also the timeliness in this particular application.  And just to give you a little bit of a background.  In the Charles Town immediate area there are three current sewer treatment plants, one at Tuscawilla, one at the City of Charles Town, and also one at Willow Springs.  And primarily what the Staff is going to be focusing on at a treatment project at the City of Charles Town.  Currently, they do have a project that’s being upgraded to 500,000 gallons of capacity to expand, to give extra capacity.

                              Also, the Staff will present testimony looking at Ranson, the City of Ranson, which is currently building a flow station, constructing a flow station to accept additional flows, and one the Staff has proposed as its first recommendation for orderly and also timeliness of development as having the Sheridan Development to be 178 lots, actually to go back in and to tie into the Breckenridge Pump Station.  The Breckinridge Pump Station will tie to this Flowing Springs Pump Station, then it would feed to the City of Charles Town.

                              Looking at those particular things that Staff looked at, for an orderly and timeliness of development with the developer to serve the residential subdivision and also to provide with the District an orderly development of the District’s infrastructure, since this particular project was going to be looking at conveying over to the District. 

                              As an alternative, the Staff has also looked at the Old Standard plant itself.  And that would be I’ll say the Staff’s second preference as a recommendation.  And that would be looking at the Old Standard plant being built.  Also, there are some of the provisions of looking at, that Old Standard would also provide a letter of credit, a bond to ensure that the District’s rates are unharmed, they’re not affected, until the build-out of the Sheridan Development will actually support itself, so the District and its ratepayers aren’t harmed by the building of this particular project.

                              In looking upon that, depending upon the evidence that’s presented today, that’s the two Staff’s alternatives and at least we would like to have the Commission understand and hear both sides, both provisions from Staff of looking at those recommendations.  And we will proceed with that particularly in the rest of the hearing.  Thank you. 

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Now we’re ready to begin to take public comments.  You will not be sworn in, but please come up to the witness stand here on my right.  Please speak slowly and into the microphone so we can hear you, particularly the court reporter, who will be taking down remarks, so that we may review them when we decide this case.  We need to know your name and address first.  Please spell your name and any parts of your address that could be spelled in more than one way.  After that, you may make your comments.  I believe we have one public comment.  We had someone sign up.  And it’s hard for me to read.  It looks like Lynda ---.

                              MS. LEIMBACH:

                              Leimbach. 

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Yes.

                              MS. LEIMBACH:

                              Good morning.  How are you?

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Good.

                              MR. LEIMBACH:

                              My name is Lynda, that’s L-Y-N-D-A,  Leimbach, L-E-I-M-B-A-C-H.  I live in Harpers Ferry.  It’s 45 Pintail, P-I-N-T-A-I-L Court.  And that’s in Harpers Ferry, West Virginia.  I’m coming here kind of as a dual purpose.  I have been a resident of Jefferson County for nine years.  My husband is a Shepherd University graduate, I’m a Shepherd University graduate, our son is a Shepherd University graduate.  We have always been in love with Jefferson County, that’s why we moved there nine years ago.  Fortunately, there was some building going on at that time which enabled us to move in.  I also work for K. Hovnanian Homes, who is going to be the builder for Sheridan Estates. 

                              I have brought some letters from some of my homeowners whose lives have been drastically affected by this two-year delay.  It is true that homes were sold in January --- January 17th of 2004.  We thought we were going to be able to move forward.  We have not received any permits for that community to be able to start building.  Some of my homeowners really wanted to come but could not bear the expense of a hotel and airfare to come here, so I am here to speak for them as well as for myself and for the growth of Jefferson County and the future of Jefferson County. 

                              But I have some homeowners who –-- they are residents of West Virginia, and they’ve lived in West Virginia for 15, 20 years.  One couple has lived there for approximately eight years, he’s a fireman.  Him and his wife are due for their first baby in August of this year.  They certainly thought they would have been in their home by now.  And they haven’t even put together a nursery yet because of all the delays.  I have another homeowner who got married last year.  He thought he would have been in his home last year.  His wife is going to West Virginia University, he lives in Waldorf, Maryland, which is approximately two and a half hours from Jefferson County.  He has had to stay down there living with his dad and she’s going to West Virginia University.  Their one-year anniversary was in July and they’ve been separated all this time. 

                              I liked some of the comments this gentleman made, and he said, in a little over two weeks it will be our one-year wedding anniversary.  We still have no house to celebrate in, no house to have friends over in, no house to have family over in, and no house to live together as husband and wife.  These are just a few of the letters that I would like for the Commission to review, to see how it has affected some of the homeowners’ lives. 

                              I’ve been enjoying Jefferson County for nine years and I would like to see other people be able to come into our county and enjoy it as much as I do.  Since Sheridan has not been able to move forward, which is what I was hired for two years ago, they have moved me to the Huntfield community.  I know that community is a 3,200 home community and these capacity that they’re talking about the Charles Town plant being increased to isn’t even going to handle that 3,200 home community.  So as I believe as has already been mentioned, the sewer plant capacity that’s being increased is already spoken for. 

                              We have a lot of commercial components --- and this is talking as a resident of Jefferson County.  We have a lot of commercial components coming to our place.  We have Home Depot, we have Premier Breads.  I’ve met with a lot of these individuals.  You have to have population to support these businesses, and without population, these businesses are going to fold.  I would hate to see that happen in Jefferson County.  I actually saw it happen in Frederick, Maryland, where there was no growth for a while, and this was a while back, but businesses started closing up because the population wasn’t there. 

                              So I just wanted to speak as a Jefferson County resident, myself.  I am in Harpers Ferry myself.  I think growth is a very good thing.  I’m born and raised DC and moved to Frederick.  It grew, but I’ve always loved Jefferson County and that’s why we moved out here.  I also wanted to share my letters with you.  And I also brought some brochure packs to show you the type of quality home they’re going to be building.  We’re going to be building homes that are 2,800 square feet to almost 3,800 square feet, so these are not shabby homes.  They’re very, very nice, good quality homes, and we are a national home builder.  That’s all I wanted to share with you today.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Thank you.           

                              MS. LEIMBACH:

                              Thank you.  What would you like for me to do with these? 

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Are there other public comments?  If not, we’ll proceed to the evidentiary part of the hearing.  Those of you that made comments are welcome to stay and observe.  This part of the case is presented by the parties and their Counsel.  First, we will tend to the preliminary matters.  Old Standard had some publication of hearing on May 8, as the Commission previously ordered. 

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, I tender an affidavit of publication from the Spirit of Jefferson Advocate indicating that notice of today’s hearing was published in that paper on July 21, 2005. 

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              So are you submitting this for file?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Yes, sir.  We normally mail in affidavits of publication to the executive secretary, and we did mail in the notice of the July 13th hearing which has already been made part of the file.  But that’s the only copy that I’m submitting for today’s hearing.  Thank you.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Are there other preliminary matters that the parties wish to bring to the Commission’s attention?  Then the Commission is ready to receive the evidence in this case.  Old Standard, are you ready to proceed?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              We’re ready to proceed, Your Honor.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Please call your first witness.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              My first witness is Mr. Herb Jonkers.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              I’ll ask the court reporter to swear in the witness.

--------------------------------------------------------

HERBERT JONKERS, HAVING FIRST BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

--------------------------------------------------------

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:     

Q.           Good morning, sir.

A.           Good morning.

Q.           Would you state your name and business address, please, sir?

A.           Herbert Jonkers, 1784 Kabletown Road, Charles Town, West Virginia.                                             

Q.           And what is your employment, Mr. Jonkers?

A.           I’m a member of Sheridan, LLC and --- excuse me, manager of Sheridan, LLC and manager of Old Standard, LLC.

Q.           Tell the Commission what Sheridan, LLC is and what its primary project is.       

A.           Sheridan, LLC entered into a contract to purchase approximately 99 acres in the early part of 2002 for the development of 178 lots and subsequently contracted with K. Hovnanian, successor to Washington Homes, to build 178 homes on the site. 

Q.           What is Old Standard, LLC?

A.           Old Standard, LLC was formed to purchase 410 acres of an old quarry site along the Shenandoah River, south of Harpers Ferry.

Q.           Are you the manager of the Old Standard, LLC ---

A.           Yes, sir.

Q.           --- as well?  Mr. Jonkers, did you cause to prepare and be filed in this case the application for a Certificate of Convenience and Necessity?

A.           Yes, sir.

Q.           And did you cause that application to be supplemented on two occasions, one for initial information on the Division of Environmental Protection’s NPDES permit and then supplemented again for information to and from the state Historical Preservation Office?

A.           Yes, sir.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have the file of which is the January, 5, 2005 application, together with the March 31, 2005 supplement, and the April 6th, 2005 supplement, bound in the notebooks which I have just passed out and marked for identification as Old Standard Exhibit Number One?

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Objection.  We have not received a copy of that. 

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Did you ask for one?

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Yes.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Well, you haven’t asked me.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              We asked --- well, we asked the PSC for all materials that relate to the application of this certificate and we did not receive any of that material.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Are you saying, Mr. Faulkner, that you don’t have a copy of the application?

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              That is correct.  And the amendments.

We have the original but not the amendments.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              I move that the exhibit be marked for identification, Your Honor.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Let’s go off the record.

OFF RECORD DISCUSSION

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, I’m going to show you an aerial photograph and display it for the Commission.  And I’m going to ask you to authenticate it.  And then I’m going to ask you to describe for the Commission what is depicted on this aerial photograph.  First, generally describe what is it and then we will see if we can get it marked as an exhibit.

A.           It’s an aerial photograph of the area which contains Sheridan Estates on the lower-right quadrant and the Old Standard quarry site in the upper middle of the photograph.

Q.           You may leave your seat.

A.           I’m sorry. 

Q.           This view is generally south up?

A.           This is south, north Charles Town, in this direction, Harpers Ferry is in this direction.  This is the Shenandoah River, this is the quarry excavation, which is nearly a mile long body of water, it’s a lake. This is the Sheridan Subdivision.  This is an industrial site known as Amerigas, where they make concrete pipe, boxes, culverts and such. 

               This construction that’s going on here is on the Park Service property, which is the customs --- where they’re putting in a customs facility.  It’s an underground firing range training facility. 

               The quarry property is from approximately right here all the way to this tip over here and is approximately a mile and a half in length.  The white areas here are the old industrial Brownfields location. There are spoil piles which we’ll show some photographs of later.  It’s approximately one to two million yards of pipeline that was reject.  These old buildings --- old concrete buildings are falling apart.  The quarry has not been active since, I believe it’s 1974, when they couldn’t keep up with the infiltration of water.

               This is an old dump site known as the Millville Dump, for which we have a remediation program.  This entire area through here has been released, with the exception of this ten-acre site from the voluntary remediation program that we entered into when we bought the property back in 2003.  I believe that’s all.

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, is any part of the Harpers Ferry National Historical Park depicted in that photograph?

A.           The Park Service owns this property right here. And that purchase goes back to when the Park Service had both sides of the road under contract to purchase for the Fish and Wildlife training facility.  They closed on this piece.  They did not close on this piece.  The owner was in bankruptcy.  He was having some other problems.  Then they opted to purchase the property in Shepherdstown, along the Potomac River, rather than conclude this purchase, so the Park Service does own this and ---.

Q.           But it’s not part of the actual Historical Park, though, is it?

A.           Not that I’m aware of.  It’s owned by the Park Service, that’s all I know.

Q.           Is any part of the park depicted on the     left-hand side of that ---

A.           Down in here ---

Q.           --- photograph?

A.           --- is what’s known as Murphy’s Landing.  And right here is the visitors center.  The Park Service did buy this park.  This is where the visitors center is located.  This is a trailer park, campgrounds.  You’ve got a motel right here.  The Shipley School is right here.  This is Carriage Park Subdivision, with a commercial car repair facility here and a church right here. 

Q.           Carriage Park Subdivision has septic service for its ---?

A.           Septic and well, yes, sir.

Q.           Septic and well?

A.           Right.

Q.           Now, briefly describe for the Commission the --- again, point out where the proposed Sheridan Subdivision is.  And then with your finger draw a line tracing the proposed route of the sewer lines to the Old Standard treatment plant.

A.           The pump station would be located right here.  It would be crossing Route 340, coming down the southerly side of 340, up and down Bloomery Road, as soon as we get to our corner of our property, we’d be stepping across onto our property.  Coming down the old railroad bed, which traces along through here to our site for the sewer plant which is approximately right here.  I’m sorry, it’s right here.  And then from there, we’d be coming across here, going out into the river is the effluent line.

               The location of the plant is between two rather substantial berms that, as you can see, is completely overgrown with trees.  No one would be able to see anything from the road.  The entire plant is within --- contained within a structure, so it’s all enclosed, there are no outside pools, ponds, whatever.  Everything is pretty much inside.  The two earth berms here and here are the residue of the overburden that was taken off of the stone as they were working their way down the quarry and piling up on the side. 

Q.           Does the Shenandoah River flow from top to bottom in this photograph?

A.           It flows in this direction.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Okay.  Your Honor, may we have this photograph marked for identification as Old Standard Exhibit Number Two?

(Old Standard Exhibit Number Two marked for identification.)

CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Hearing no objection, it will be received. 

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              This is particularly just for a housekeeping matter.  The certificate application, the separate document of the DEP permit and also the SHPO compliance have different dates in the letter.  Is the Commission considering that as one exhibit?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              What’s the question, Ron?

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              For those three documents that you identified as an exhibit of Old Standard, is that going to be identified as exhibit total Number One or is it going to be One, Two and Three?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              No, that’s just One.  The package is the application.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Okay.  Thank you.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, I’ve displayed on an easel a map of Jefferson County, titled Jefferson County zoning map.  Are you familiar with that map?

A.           Somewhat, yes, sir.

Q.           That does represent the entire county, ---

A.           Right.

Q.           --- so would you point out to the Commission where the major geographical features in the county are, including Charles Town, Ranson, Harpers Ferry, Shepherdstown and so on?

A.           This is Charles Town, Harpers Ferry, Shepherdstown.  This is the Old Standard quarry site.  This site here includes both the old quarry that’s on Blair Road and the property that the Park Service purchased for the Fish and Wildlife Training Center.  The property approximately right here is the Amerigas facility that we showed in the photograph.  And Sheridan is right here. 

Q.           And do you believe that map accurately depicts the zoning classifications at the time that it was prepared, which looks to be about 2002?

A.           It was prepared for the Jefferson County Planning Commission by Dewberry (phonetic) Surveyors, and, yes, I think it’s accurate.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have the zoning map marked for identification as Old Standard Exhibit Number Three?

(Old Standard Exhibit Number Three marked for identification.)

CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Hearing no objections, we will receive it.

BY ATTORNEY MCDOHALD:

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, describe briefly for the Commission, now back to Sheridan, the Sheridan Subdivision, the --- well, let’s display some photographs.  I’m going to hand you a photograph that’s titled Sheridan Subdivision, August 2005, and ask you, to the best of your knowledge, who took that picture?

A.           I believe it was taken by Mr. Snyder.  It shows the first paved road into --- and a storm water detention pond in Sheridan and the Carriage Park houses in the background.

Q.           This is generally looking northeast maybe?

A.           It would be looking northeast. 

Q.           I hand you a second photograph and ask you --- all these photographs were taken by Lee Snyder, were they not?

A.           Yes.       

Q.           What is that next photograph?

A.           That’s the drainage swell along the first entry road, showing the water meters, sewer laterals, fire hydrants, and the house construction pads. 

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have the first photograph that’s been handed out, the 8 and a half by 11, marked for identification as Old Standard next number, Number Four, I believe. 

(Old Standard Exhibit Number Four marked for identification.)

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              So marked.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Now Mr. Jonkers, I’m going to show you a third photograph called Sheridan Subdivision.  This one’s got a number three on it, August ’05.  Could you tell the Commission what this photograph depicts?

A.           This photograph would be the third cul-de-sac up on top of the hill, looking south, showing a graded road, sewer laterals, fire hydrants, indicating that the water services have been installed.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have this photograph marked for identification as Old Standard Exhibit Number Seven?

(Old Standard Exhibit Number Six marked for identification.)

CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              So marked.  And that’s Exhibit    Number ---?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Six, sorry.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Do these pictures accurately depict the Sheridan Subdivision, if you will, as it exists today?

A.           It depicts is as it exists today, all of the --- or I’d say 99 percent of the overlot grading has been completed.  All but about 30 lots are improved with sewer and water laterals.  That’s all that’s remaining to be done on the site.

Q.           So you got paved roads?

A.           We have paved roads to approximately 40 lots, and then just graded roads ready for gravel for the balance.

Q.           Okay.  Have any houses been built?

A.           No.

Q.           Why not?

A.           We had received two building permits and then they were revoked when we reversed our flow on the sewer line instead going to Charles Town, where there was no capacity to the new plant, which was proposed at Old Standard.  The county is now in the process of issuing new permits.

Q.           So you think you can get some building permits?

A.           That’s correct.

Q.           How is this real estate deal working?  You’re a developer, you buy the land and you put in roads and water and sewer, and then ---

A.           I sell ---.

Q.           --- do you sell lots individually?

A.           I sell lots in bulk to National Builders. 

Q.           And then they sell to ---?

A.           And they sell to the individual homeowners.

Q.           Okay.

A.           One of --- the first picture shows their sales trailer in the corner, which has been vacant for about the better part of a year.

Q.           How long has the lack of sewer been holding up the construction of houses at Sheridan?

A.           We started the process of trying to build our own plant and going through the exercise of buying a state-of-the-art facility, I would say at the end of 2003, first part of 2004. 

Q.           Okay.

A.           We went to the PSD in, I think it was in April or May of 2004, to propose and come to an agreement on the four documents which we will talk about later.

Q.           Okay.  So is it true to say that lack of sewer is what’s holding up --- 

A.           Yeah.

Q.           --- house construction in Sheridan?

A.           That’s correct.

Q.           And I’m going to hand you a series of pictures that I’d like for you to identify for the Commission.  These pictures were also taken by Lee Snyder, were they not?

A.           Yes, they are.      

Q.           He’s going to be a witness in a little bit.  Describe the picture that is being ---

A.           This is part of ---

Q.           --- displayed currently.

A.           --- the Old Standard quarry in operation, which obviously is falling into disrepair and is falling apart.  These are some old kilns that were on site where lime was burned back in the early part of the century, the 1900s.  The quarry had gravel that had a high level of magnesium in it and this material was shipped to Pittsburgh for additive to steel.  When that market dried up, because of the shift in the depth of the rock, they changed to a different product, rock wool, which was a predecessor to Fiberglas insulation.

Q.           How long, again, has that manufacturing process been stopped there?

A.           It’s my understanding that the whole facility closed down in 1974, when they pulled everything out of the pit.

Q.           Okay.  The next picture I’m going to hand you says number five, Old Standard quarry.  Describe what this picture displays, please.

A.           Again, these are some old kilns and part of the structures that are in the Brownfields area, or what was considered the Brownfields area. 

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, let me make sure we’re up to date here.  I have three pictures of Old Standard, Exhibits Four, Five and Six, and now two of Old Standard quarry site, Number Seven and Number Eight.  Can we have this most recent one marked for identification, Number Eight?

(Old Standard Exhibit Numbers Seven and Eight marked for identification.)

CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

So marked.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           I hand you a picture labeled Number Six, Old Standard quarry.  It has a photograph of what appears to be a big tank.  Explain what that picture depicts, please.

A.           That’s an old lime silo that is still full of lime.  Obviously, the concrete is giving way and it’s going to topple over one of these days.

Q.           Incidentally, is this --- are these ruins and this tank a part of the area which is part of the remediation program?

A.           Yes, sir.  The entire property was put into a voluntary remediation program.  And of that --- of the property, approximately 300 acres has already been released and 100 acres still needs to be taken care of. That 100 acres has now been tested and completed.  And we have a toxicologist here who will testify to its safety.

Q.           I’m sure the Chairman understands remediation, but why don’t you tell the rest of us, briefly, what that means.

A.           Well, we had to have Triad Engineering do a lot of testing on site to check soils, check any lime piles, check water in the lake, anything that might have some toxic quality to it which would interfere with anything we would want to do with the property at a later date.  As a result of all of that testing and some work that we have done on site in cleaning up some of what’s known as the hot spots, we have gotten the 300 plus acres released.  And we still have to deal with the old manufacturing site, which testing has now been completed.  And we have to finish up with actually capping the old dump site, the old dump site.

Q.           Do you know whether the land and structures depicted in the photographs that we’ve already looked at cover remediated land or unremediated land?

A.           This area has not been remediated, but it has been completely tested and found to be acceptable.

Q.           Okay.  Now, I hand you another ---.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              We marked this tank, didn’t we?

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Yes.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           I hand you another one, another photograph, labeled Number Seven, Old Standard quarry.  And I ask you to explain to the Commission what’s depicted by that photograph.

A.           These are some of the lime piles, the reject lime piles, which we have somewhere between one and two million yards of reject pile.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, I ask that the lime piles be marked for identification as Old Standard Exhibit Number Ten.

(Old Standard Exhibit Number Ten marked for identification.)

CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

So marked.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           I now hand you a photograph labeled Number Eight, Old Standard quarry, and ask you to explain for the commission what this photograph depicts.

A.           This was the old rock wool manufacturing facility, which is going south from the first number of structures that we showed you.  The old railroad track that this --- upon which we’re going to put the wastewater treatment facility would be just to the left of this picture. 

Q.           I now hand you a photograph labeled Number Nine, Old Standard quarry, and ask for you to explain to the Commission what this picture depicts.

A.           This is, in fact, the old railroad bed.  And the circle area, the widened area, is where the plant is going to be situated.  The plant will have roughly a dimension of, I guess 50 by 60 feet.  It looked like a barn sitting there.  And that’s the entire facility.  The incoming flow will be coming from the direction that the photographer was sitting in.  And the effluent line will be going further down the track, looking down into the woods.

Q.           Is that site in open view?

A.           No.  If you look to the right, you can see the trees are starting to grow up a hill.  And on the left, they’re starting to grow up a hill.  So on both sides, either from the lake or from the road, and to approximately 300 feet off the road, you wouldn’t be able to see the site.  The hill is taller than the peak of the roof.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have photograph label Number Nine marked for identification as Old Standard Exhibit 12?

(Old Standard Exhibit Number 12 marked for identification.)

CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

So marked.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, approximately how far is the proposed plant site from the edge of the river?

A.           It’s about 4,000 feet.  It takes 4,000 feet of pipe to get to the river for the effluent line to discharge this water.

Q.           Now, I wonder if you could, in just a few sentences, summarize the agreements that you have with Jefferson County Public Service District.  In other words, how is this deal going to work?

A.           Basically, what we’ve agreed to do is donate to Jefferson County Public Service District approximately three acres, which we have already conveyed, for a dollar. We’ve leased it back from them for a dollar.  We will build the plant and all of the lines coming to the plant and from the plant.  And when the entire project is built and operating, they will have a --- we have a maintenance and operational agreement --- operating and maintenance agreement with the JCPSD.  And then when the project is completely built out in terms of the housing, they will buy it from us for a dollar.

Q.           Well, at some point they’ll buy it from you for a dollar, generally, upon completion of construction of a wastewater treatment plant and testing; is that right?

A.           Well, it will be a little bit after that, but it’s --- effectively, yes.

Q.           Meanwhile, they’re going to operate the system, are they not?

A.           That’s correct.    

Q.           There’s been some concern expressed by the Staff during our discussions about the financial feasibility of this plant.  Explain to the Commission, if you will, what steps you’ve taken to assure that this plant would be financially feasible for the District.

A.           We will be providing a $50,000 letter of credit to guarantee any shortfalls in operation of the facility.  And all of our cost projections indicate that that would be more than enough to double whatever shortfall would occur during the first year.  After the first year, it starts to break even.  And at the end of the third year it’s actually making a profit of $20,000 a year.

Q.           And have you agreed with the District to financially guarantee that the District will not lose money on this until the plant is profitable for two consecutive quarters?

A.           That’s correct.

Q.           And JCPSD is going to bill --- send bills to your homeowners?

A.           That’s right.

Q.           Does Old Standard intend to remain a utility or to cover the costs of its construction or financing through rates?

A.           No.  Absolutely no.

Q.           What is the status of the permits required from the West Virginia Health Department?

A.           We have a permit from the West Virginia Health Department.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, that’s tab five in the filing.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           And what’s the status of the Division of Environmental Protection, NPDES discharge permit?

A.           We have an approved discharge permit.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, that is in the March 31, 2005 supplement to the filing.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Has there been any construction on the wastewater treatment plant at the Old Standard site?

A.           The plant is on order and we’re waiting for its arrival.

Q.           What is Old Standard’s investment, to date, in the wastewater treatment plant and related mains?

A.           Well, it’s a combination of Old Standard and Sheridan.  But the total project is going to run close to $3 million.  The monies expended to date probably are somewhere around a half a million dollars, just in the plant portion.

Q.           Well, this application was filed to serve the Sheridan Subdivision and perhaps the Shipley School and the Cliffside Inn.  Explain to the Commission, briefly, the status of your discussions with the school and the Inn for providing service from this facility to them.

A.           We made a proposal to the school board, it was probably in July of 2003, whereby in exchange for their support for some of our projects, we would provide for them to hook up the Shipley School.  The Board took no

--- the school Board took no official action on it, but we have had ongoing conversations with them.  We have included, going to --- talking to them about how their new school board building was going to be built on another site.  And during the course of that conversation, the Shipley School situation came up again.  The chairman of the school Board and the superintendent of schools are both interested in getting the septic field closed down at Shipley School and tied into a regular sewer line. 

               As for the Cliffside Inn, we had some preliminary conversations with Mr. Patel.  He was concerned because of the lack of quality of water, his sewer plant was failing at the Cliffside.  He had some additional capacity and we were discussing trading initial capacity at his plant for future access to our new plant.  And when he started looking at the numbers, I guess he decided it wasn’t worth his time to pursue that, because the numbers were getting too big for him. That’s the Cliffside relationship. 

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, summarize for the Commission what it is that you would like for them to do.

A.           We would like to proceed with what we have set out to do, and that’s provide a state-of-the-art facility for the State of West Virginia.  When we first got started talking to the PSD about bringing sewer service to Sheridan, we had a main line extension agreement but there was no way to get past the Breckenridge Pump Station at the time.  Then the capacity issue came up for the City of Charles Town and we’re sitting there with project going underway and no place for the sewage to go.  So we contacted the PSD.  They put us in touch with some folks who had this state-of-the-art facility who had been in to talk to them, and that’s Enviroquip out of Austin, Texas.  They came up, made a presentation.  And although their facility was more expensive than a standard facility, we felt that   --- at the time we knew that Chesapeake Bay regulations were going to come into effect in the near future, so we figured, well, rather than pay twice, we’ll pay once and get it over with and do it right to start off with, and that’s where we are. 

               I feel that this plant is going to put out water that is a better quality than the Shenandoah River is itself.  And as a result, I just think we are ahead of the curve.  And I think a lot of the other builders and developers in Jefferson County have seen the wisdom of this and they are moving ahead with it in the same fashion.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Thank you, Mr. Jonkers.  Your Honor, the witness is available for Cross Examination. 

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Excuse me, Your Honor.  At this particular time I would like to ask Mr. McDonald a question.  Basically, it does get into the exhibits that he’s identified for the record at this time, if that would be allowed.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Yes.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              At this particular time, I’m assuming Mr. McDonald is also going to call Mr. Lee Snyder ---

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              That’s correct.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              --- to provide the foundation for the taking of these pictures.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Sure.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              That’s all I needed to know.  Thank you. 

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              I have a few quick Cross Examination questions.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY KELSH:

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, if the Commission approves your application for a Certificate of Convenience and Necessity, how long do you expect it will take you to complete construction of the transmission lines and the wastewater treatment plant?

A.           We hope to be in the ground and operational within six to eight months.

Q.           Okay.  Your Counsel has kept you apprised of the filings by the various parties in this case?

A.           Yes, sir.

Q.           Are you aware of any other options that are capable of providing the Sheridan Subdivision with wastewater treatment services within the timeframe you expect to receive it, if you construct this facility yourself?

A.           No, sir.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              All right.  Thank you.  That’s all I have. 

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, you say you’re the manager of the Sheridan, LLC; is that correct?

A.           That’s correct.

Q.           What is your percentage of ownership at the Sheridan, LLC?

A.           I don’t own anything.

Q.           How are you compensated as a manager?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Objection, it’s irrelevant.  It’s a Certificate of Convenience and Necessity issue. 

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              The pattern of ownership and who else is involved is very critical when we get further into this matter.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Objection upheld.  Excuse me, one second.

OFF RECORD DISCUSSION

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              I’m sorry.  Objection overruled. 

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Mr. Chairman, I’d like to make a comment about the objection.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Just one second.

OFF RECORD DISCUSSION

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              At this time I’d like to take a break for 15 minutes.  Before that, I’d ask that Mr. McDonald provide a copy of Old Standard Exhibit One to the Faulkners and other parties for their review.  This is required for all exhibits.  At this time, we’ll take a 15-minute break.  We’ll be back at five ‘til 11:00.

SHORT BREAK TAKEN

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              In compliance with your instructions, I have given the Faulkners a copy of Old Standard Exhibit Number One.  We passed out copies of Exhibits 4 through 12 to all parties as we were displaying those to the Commission, so they have copies of all those exhibits.  That leaves Exhibit Two, which is the large photograph, and Exhibit Three, which is the zoning map.  And with the Commission’s indulgence, we will get copies of those after the hearing and distribute them to the parties. 

The big photograph was very expensive.  We will produce smaller versions from the same negative. 

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              With the Commission’s --- the overruling of Mr. Faulkner’s objections, the Staff has a couple of questions or comments to the Commission.  Looking at the Notice of Filing that Old Standard gave publication to in Jefferson County and submitted an Affidavit of Publication of their Notice of Filing, their Notice of Filing has --- is to serve only the Sheridan’s Homeowners’ Association, the Shipley School and the Cliffside Inn. 

                              We’ve heard from Mr. Jonkers about the status of the Shipley School looking at connecting to this Old Standard plant.  We also heard that with the Cliffside Inn, and trying to looking and at hooking up with the sewer connections for the Cliffside Inn.

                              As this particular time, we’ve heard nothing from who is the Sheridan Homeowners’ Association.  Is that part of Sheridan, LLC?  We have no indication that Sheridan --- Sheridan Homeowners’ Association wants and is willing to have sewer provided by Old Standard, so I think the ownership provisions of Sheridan, LLC, Old Standard, LLC, is a proper place in this forum with the Commission to understand the relationship of both of those LLCs.  Thank you.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              The Commission did not deny the inquiry into ownership.  The Commission did deny how much the witness was making.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              May I respond to Staff’s comments, Your Honor and Commissioners?  This application was filed January 5 or so.  And at the time, of course, it was proposed that this wastewater treatment plant would serve three customers, the homeowners’ association, the school and the inn. 

                              Subsequent to the filing, the Commission entered its decision in the Sheeley versus Jefferson County Public Service District case, which established the law in the case that Old Standard should file for a Certificate of Convenience and Necessity.  If it gets a Certificate of Convenience and Necessity, of course, it becomes a public utility and it has to serve whoever requests service.  So while our original plan was to serve only three customers, the Commission, in the Sheeley case asked us to file for a Certificate of Convenience and Necessity and that’s what we did.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              May I make a response?  With the applicant’s filing, that is the Notice of Filing, to serve those three customers, at no time has this Commission had from the applicant, Old Standard, any expansion or --- an expansion of the scope of the certificate.  Nothing has been formally filed from Old Standard.  And that’s how the Staff works with this Notice of Filing with these particular three customers. Thank you.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              And if I may speak on this matter as well, Mr. Chairman.  What I was trying to get to is that Mr. Jonkers, is he speaking as an individual, a private citizen, is he as manager of both Sheridan and of Old Standard.  If he has an ownership or other financial interest, then the Commission should know who he’s speaking for and what may be motivating his answers.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Please proceed with your examination.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Yes.

BY MR. FAULKNER: 

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, do you recall the community impact statement of Sheridan --- or not Sheridan ---.  No, I’m going to do this first.  The Sheridan community impact statement that has your signature and was done in December of 2000. 

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Give copies out to --- especially Mr. Jonkers.  I’d like to have this be the next exhibit.  I don’t know if we number them as our exhibits or these just become another part of the overall Commission exhibits, but we’d like to enter this into the exhibits.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Faulkner Exhibit One.

(Faulkner Exhibit Number One marked for identification.)

MR. FAULKNER:

                              This would be Faulkner Exhibit One, I guess. 

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Yes. 

A.           This is not a document that I have signed.

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Yes.  Mr. Jonkers, a community impact statement was submitted to the Jefferson County Planning Commission on behalf of Sheridan Subdivision.  Are you saying that you had nothing to do with this community impact statement?

A.           That’s correct, not the one that you’ve just handed me.

Q.           Will you please --- as everyone will see, it was received by the Jefferson County Planning Commission and it was approved by the Jefferson County Planning Commission on January 9th, 2001.  Are you saying that as the manager of the subdivision or Sheridan, LLC, that you had nothing to do with this document?

A.           If you’ll note, this is not from Sheridan, LLC. As I testified to earlier, Sheridan, LLC did not come into being until 2002, which is when I purchased --- or was part of the group that purchased the property.  This predates anything I had to do.

Q.           So who owned it at that time?

A.           Gene Capriotti.

Q.           And at that point, you had no interest in Sheridan, LLC at the point of this community ---?

A.           There was no Sheridan, LLC at that time.

Q.           All right.  Well, the question is, obviously somebody created this document that is an official submission required under the regulations of the zoning subdivision ordinances of Jefferson County.

A.           You should find that person and discuss it with him.

Q.           Right.  But the issue is, it was approved.  It was the first step in making Sheridan Subdivision exist?             

A.           It could be.  I don’t know, I wasn’t involved then.

Q.           Okay.  To humor me, will you please read number 16 into the record?  

A.           Jefferson Utilities will provide water service from its Meadowbrook and Walnut Grove water system.  Jefferson County Public Service District will provide sewer service.

Q.           Okay.  So at the time that you purchased this   --- or Sheridan, LLC came into existence, what was your understanding of where the sewer service would come from, in terms of location?

A.           Jefferson County Public Service District.

Q.           And what facility, at that time, was your understanding ---?

A.           It was to go back to the Patrick Henry Estates, I believe.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              I’m sorry, I didn’t hear you.

A.           I believe it was to go to Patrick Henry Estates.

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           And then from there into the Charles Town plant?

A.           That’s what I just said, it goes to Patrick Henry Estates.

Q.           And again, you were part of Sheridan, LLC starting on what date?

A.           2002.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              2002.  And I’d like to enter the following document into the record as Faulkner Exhibit Two.

(Faulkner Exhibit Number Two marked for identification.)

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           So that the audience understands what we’re doing, can you please read the text of the letter which I’m offering?

A.           Dear Mr. Laughland, the Jefferson County Public Service District will service the sewage needs of the Sheridan development through its collection system.  From our system the flow will proceed to Charles Town Wastewater Treatment Plant.

Q.           So as a participant and manager of Sheridan, LLC, do you recall this letter at that time?

A.           No, I don’t.

Q.           So, again, as a manager ---?

A.           It was addressed to John Laughland at the facility design group, who was our engineer.    

Q.           Okay.  So as the engineer for Sheridan, LLC, and you as the manager of Sheridan, LLC, you’re not familiar with this letter?

A.           Not this specific letter, no.

Q.           But again, this was a letter required by the subdivision ordinances of Jefferson County?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Well --- no objection.

A.           I knew at that time that it was going to Charles Town.  But you’re asking me whether I’m familiar with this letter.  No, I’m not familiar with this letter.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Okay. 

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Well, he asked you if this letter was required by the zoning ordinances.  And I’m not sure you presented yourself as a zoning expert, but maybe you can answer it.

A.           It seems to me that this was an informational letter that was directed to our engineer, not to the Planning Commission.

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Can you remember the sequence of events between the Sheridan, LLC and the Jefferson County Planning Commission in terms of various approvals?  That’s just a yes or no.  I mean, you were the manager, were you involved with the approval process?

A.           To some degree, yeah.

Q.           To some degree?

A.           Uh-huh (yes).

Q.           Then you remember that --- this, again, may have been before your involvement, but that as probably part of your due diligence, as a good businessman, you would know that the preliminary plat was approved by the Jefferson County Planning Commission on July 21st, 2002. Are you familiar with that?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Are you also familiar with the final plat for Sheridan’s Subdivision was approved on April 22nd, 2003?

A.           Right.

Q.           And that you sought bonding authority and received bonding authority from the Jefferson County Planning Commission on September 22nd, 2003?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And the first building permits or location improvement permits were issued for the Sheridan Subdivision on April 8th, 2004?

A.           Okay.

Q.           So at any point through the bonding process, had Old Standard been discussed with the Jefferson County Planning Division?

A.           No.

Q.           So up until that point, all of the approvals, the community impact statement, which is the first major step that is required under Jefferson County Subdivision ordinances, the preliminary plat approval, the final plat approval and the bonding were all done with sewer service coming from Charles Town?

A.           That’s correct.

Q.           Okay.

               ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Your Honor, I’m going to object to this line of questioning.  I’ve been here listening patiently, trying to see how Mr. Faulkner is going to try and tie this into the Commission’s standards with respect to granting Certificates of Convenience and Necessity.  And I don’t see how Mr. Faulkner’s getting us there.

                              In the July 20th, 2005 Order in this case, the Commission said that it would not listen to re-litigation of issues properly within the jurisdiction of other agencies.  It seems to me Mr. Faulkner is raising concerns about the Jefferson County planning process.  I don’t know that this Commission can do anything.  But if it wanted to, to modify actions of the Jefferson County Planning Commission, I don’t see how this is relevant to the decision before the Commission.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Mr. Chairman, quite to the contrary.  We are not talking about the Jefferson County Planning process or critiquing it in any way, shape or manner.  The whole point of today’s proceedings is a Certificate of Convenience and Necessity.  And they have been, as in the summations at the very beginning of this day’s hearing, the whole point.  And the point of these photographs is that Sheridan cannot exist without Old Standard, when in fact Sheridan exists through ---.  In the eyes of the Jefferson County Planning Commission and the Jefferson County government and all those involved in the planning, zoning and engineering office, Sheridan is approved.  And guess what, Old Standard had nothing to do with those approvals.  So the whole issue of necessity rests on the fact that Sheridan moved forward and even received building permits without Old Standard being linked to it.  So that is why --- but that line of inquiry is completed.  We’ve made our point, we feel. 

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Let’s move on to the --- and in this case you actually did sign this document.  This is the West Virginia Department of Health and Human Services, Bureau of Public Health, Environmental Engineering Division, Sewage Collection and Treatment Systems, forms and required information for Old Standard, LLC, dated February 3rd, 2004. 

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              We’d like to enter this into evidence as our Exhibit Number Three.

(Faulkner Exhibit Number Three marked for identification.)

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           And as you can see, Mr. Jonkers, you have signed this document dated the 1st or the 30th of January ’04. I’m assuming that’s your signature.

A.           Yes, it is.

Q.           So on the page after your signature, they have

--- at the very top of the page it says, facility description.  And you have an X for the school and an X for the subdivision, and then you have number of persons at 3,570.  Under C, would you read the number of home sites, multiple home sites, et cetera?  What’s listed there for C?

A.           It says one school, one motel, 180 single-family dwellings, 550 town homes.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Thank you.  On the last page of the document, which was part of the attachments to this package --- and the entire package I have in my hand, Mr. Chairman.  The key is, we’re excerpting the items that we feel are irrelevant to today’s proceedings.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              Mr. Faulkner, let me ask you a  question, ---

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Sure.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              --- get me straightened out here.  Are you questioning the validity --- the current validity of the permits in place from either the Department of Health, the Planning Commission?  Are you questioning that they are valid today?

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              No, sir. 

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              Then I don’t understand why we’re going back to it.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Because we are creating a time line, first of all.  And secondly, as I mentioned in my opening remarks about numbers, for this Commission to approve a certificate --- and, again the burden of proof is on the applicant. 

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              I know that.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              They must prove, number one, that it’s necessary for what they plan to serve.  Number two, it’s financially viable.  And number three, that it actually will work.  And in order to prove that it will be financially viable, they have to show that there are actually enough customers so that there’s any possible hope at some point in this thing of not only breaking even, but turning a profit. 

                              We are questioning those assumptions.  We are also questioning the assumption that technologically the pipes that are planning to be laid, pump stations that are planning to be installed, and the membrane plant that was eventually to be built, needs a certain number of customers to actually work, otherwise sewer lays in the pipes and doesn’t move.  And that’s the main focus of the permits relating to --- issued by the Department of Health, that they ---.  I’m assuming that we’re going to have members of the Department of Health testifying and they will talk about their calculations. 

                              So if certain assumptions are made about how many customers there are and they approve it based on those assumptions, we feel it is legitimate to question those assumptions because the Department of Health doesn’t necessarily certify the number of customers, they only certify the submission.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              I understand where you’re coming from. I do not understand going back to these permits.  If based on today’s issue ---

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Yes.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              --- here, those numbers are relevant, I agree with that.  But going back to these permits and not questioning their validity, I have my doubts about.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Well, again, we’re building a record that Sheridan was indeed approved without Old Standard even being anywhere in plan.  So where’s the necessity?

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              If you want to attack the validity of those permits, this is the wrong place.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              No, that is not what I’m saying, sir.  I’m saying that Sheridan --- it may still look like an empty property with construction equipment, but it has, in fact, moved a substantial distance because the Jefferson County Planning Commission turns down subdivisions.  They just rejected one unanimously last month.  So the fact is is that a subdivision moving from a twinkle in the eye of the developer to building permits is a substantial accomplishment and it was done without Old Standard being in the mix.  Therefore, we start to raise the issues about the necessity of Old Standard as it is being offered up as a vital for Sheridan.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              But you’re getting the cart before the horse, because a lot of these things you’re asking about are not before us.  This man hasn’t testified to a number of things you’re getting into.  But go ahead, I’m just trying to keep this thing focused a little.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Sure.  We are very focused.  We feel we’re going to be moving to the next stage right now.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              Yes.

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           So on the last page of the health permit, at least of the excerpts we’ve had, there’s a chart.  And again this is a document that you affixed your signature to, dated January 22nd, 2004.  And there are ten items relating to the flow rates that you are requesting permits for.  So what we’d like to do is, using our map, which I’d like to offer up as our next exhibit, and this would be Exhibit Number Four, I think, Faulkner Exhibit Four, it would be this map which is of eastern Jefferson County. 

(Faulkner Exhibit Number Four marked for identification.)

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              And first of all, I would like to point out --- or my wife pointed out, that the brown on this map is the current boundaries of Harpers Ferry National Park.  As you will see, the entire land ---.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, I assume that the parties’ statements and testimony will be subject to Cross Examination; is that true?  He’s not just questioning the witness now, he’s testifying.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Oh, I see what you’re saying.  You’re calling him as an adverse witness?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Well, he’s not asking questions of the witness.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              No, I am ---.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              He’s presenting evidence and he’s testifying about what those exhibits show.  So I assume that we can cross examine him on the statement. 

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              This is the Harpers Ferry National Park map. 

OFF RECORD DISCUSSION

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              If I may speak to the motion, Mr. Chairman?  If I may speak to what Counsel said.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Just a minute.  Well, I think we probably need to continue questioning this ---

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Yes.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              --- witness and quit testifying yourself.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Okay.  Well, what we’re doing here is the witness --- and we can ask the court reporter to recall, said that Harpers Ferry Park did not extend across the street.  We are showing counter evidence to that, that as on Cross Examination, that in fact Harpers Ferry Park does extend across the street.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              Then ask the witness the question, ---

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Okay.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              --- don’t tell us what your opinion is.

BY MR. FAULKER:

Q.           So in your testimony, Mr. Jonkers, you said that you did not know whether Harpers Ferry National Park was across Route 27 from your property?

A.           That’s correct.

Q.           Looking at this map, which is official map from the National Park Service, does it look like that, in fact, may have been an error?

A.           It’s still not an error because I don’t see anything on there to tell me that this is an official map. 

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              It’s right up here.  It says, Harpers Ferry National Historical Park.  Oh, I see what you’re saying, it doesn’t. 

A.           Who created it.

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              Okay. 

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           So you’re saying this map may be a fraudulent map?

A.           It could be.  I’m not a map expert.  But I can certainly tell you that there’s nothing on there that would indicate it’s made by the federal government, that I can see.              

Q.           So are you saying that the legislation passed in 2004, in September, which included all these parcels, may not be real?

A.           I’m not privy to the legislation.  Unless  you’re ---.

Q.           It was in all the papers, sir.

A.           Well, that may be.  I know that ---

Q.           So you ---?

A.           --- the national government --- the federal government bought the property, that’s all I know.

Q.           Okay.  So for the sake of reference points, on this map where is the proposed Old Standard sewer? 

A.           Do you want me to get up ---?

Q.           Well, yeah, we’re going to put some stickies on the map here.  And where’s Sheridan?

A.           Right there.

Q.           And the Shipley School?

A.           Right here.

Q.           In your submission of January 22nd, you relate to the Kellem Estate, 200 units.  Where would that be?

A.           Right there.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Okay.  The records would show he’s just marked park land.

A.           The park land just got hold of it.

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Yes.

A.           That was not ---.

Q.           Okay.  I’m not saying that --- I’m not ---.

A.           Yeah, well, you’re alluding --- you’re alluding to the fact that this ---.

Q.           No, I’m not ---.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              For the record, I am, at no point, stating that the submission made on January 22nd in any way --- of 2004, in any way is inaccurate in the circumstances of January 22nd, 2004. 

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Again, our line of questioning relates to how many of those units can ever exist?

A.           This map can’t be right because it also includes Doctor Gibson’s property.

Q.           Well, I was going to ---.

A.           And Doctor Gibson’s property is not part of the federal government.

Q.           It is not.  It is not.  It is within the boundary.  That is a different issue.

A.           So if that map is correct, which it obviously isn’t ---.

Q.           It is ---.

A.           --- then it shouldn’t include his property.

Q.           Is it the map of the boundary, not of the holdings, the boundary. 

A.           So the map is misleading.

Q.           The map does not have a title on it, sir.

A.           Well, then why are we looking at it then?

Q.           You mentioned Mr. Gibson.  Will you mark where that is on that park --- on that map?

A.           Up a little bit.

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              Up a little bit?

A.           Uh-huh (yes).

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           And where is the 150 units for Bugler’s Rest?

A.           Just north of the quarry.

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              I don’t know where that would be.  Would you just show me?

WITNESS COMPLIES

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              On that white area?

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           And then Cliffside?

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              Would that be right here?  Cliffside?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, let’s just have one interrogator of the witness.

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              Well, I’m just asking for accuracy on the statement, that’s all.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              You might want to use a different color, it’s hard to see.

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              Okay.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Use green or ---.

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              Okay.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Why don’t you use green or blue.

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Now, you have 975 units for Old Standard quarry. So would that be the actual area called Old Standard quarry?

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              This area right here.  Is that where the 900 units are?

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           You have listed 975 units for Old Standard quarry on the documents you signed.

A.           Uh-huh (yes).

Q.           So where would that be located on the map?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              I object.  What is the question?

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Well, is there a location for the 975 units, sir?

A.           You put it in the industrial area.  Put it on the other side.         

Q.           Keep your voice up, Mr. Jonkers, so that the court reporter ---.

A.           You need to stay on the other side of the quarry, like on the river side here.  You’re right in the middle of the quarry. 

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              Is that better?

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           And, Mr. Jonkers, where is the 60 units for the industrial park that you list in your document?

A.           Up there.             

Q.           And the 200 units for the hotel?

A.           At the head of the lake.

Q.           So on January 22nd, 2004, Mr. Jonkers, you attested to these projects either existing or could potentially in the future exist and therefore you asked for certain permits from the Department of Health.  Today, now, in August of 2005, which one of these projects are still in the mix, if you had to do this chart over?

A.           The numbers are changed but I would suspect that the Kellem Estate would be gone.  Doctor Gibson would still be part of the mix at some number.

Q.           Just for clarification, since the PSC people down here may not know what goes on in Jefferson County in detail, what occurred with the Gibson proposed subdivision in May of this year?

A.           That’s subject to litigation.

Q.           But what did happen?  What’s the official act of the county government?

A.           It was rejected.

Q.           Thank you.  And so the Cliffside Inn, is that still in play?

A.           It could be. 

Q.           It could be.  Well, anything could be.

A.           That’s right.  It could be.

Q.           You could be surveying New York City.

A.           That’s right.

Q.           Anything is possible.

A.           That’s right.

Q.           Okay.  So is Shipley School in play?  Because you had mentioned that you had some extensive discussions and even exchanges of documents; is that correct?

A.           Uh-huh (yes).

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              I’d like to enter into evidence a letter relating to the discussions between Jefferson County Schools and Mr. Jonkers and some of the organizations he’s affiliated with. 

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, the letter dated March 7th of 2005 asks --- it’s a Freedom of Information Act request to the School Board.  And it asks for any correspondence, communications, meeting notes, telephone records, faxes or e-mails.  And could you read the last sentence of that letter into the record, Mr. Jonkers?

A.           The Jefferson County Board of Education is unaware of any such documents possession that are responsive to the request above, Buster Nicholson (phonetic), Director of Operations.

Q.           Thank you. 

A.           Well, he probably should have talked to Doctor Nichols (phonetic), because he wrote a letter that contradicts this shortly thereafter.

Q.           Well, can you submit that letter for the record?

A.           Counsel has it. 

Q.           So you talked about the reasons why the Drakes (phonetic) or now Old Standard property was up for sale. Since this is an excerpt from an Exhibit Number Four in the Environmental Quality Board case, this is a 1990 document that was prepared for the Park Service ultimately because it was the Drakes Associates who were in negotiations with the Park Service.  And are you aware that the parks --- the reason why the Department of Interior was not interested in the Drakes’ property was that it cost them close to $50 million to remediate the property?

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Your Honor ---.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              You’re testifying again.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              That’s not in your document.  And I’m going to object to Faulkner identifying the Faulkner Exhibit Six, for failure to authenticate these documents.  

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Are you saying that we need to have --- are you saying that that’s not the signature for the material from the Board of Education?

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              I’m saying that you failed to lay the proper foundation to have this admitted into evidence.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              The witness testified that he ---.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              Mr. Faulkner, you have a witness on the stand; ---

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Yes.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              --- correct?

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Yes.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              If you want to introduce an exhibit, you ask him to identify it.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Okay.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              If he can’t identify it, ask somebody who can, but you cannot identify it.  You’re acting as your own counsel.  And attorneys don’t testify, they ask questions.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Okay, sir. 

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           So going back to the Jefferson County Schools, since this letter is not to you, but can you identify it as an official document?

A.           No.

Q.           No.  Fine.  So relating to the --- you had mentioned that in remediation this document states that they want remove to all the soil, that you encapsulated the soil; is that correct, in your remediation?  What method of remediation, did you use to remediate the 300 plus acres that’s already been approved for remediation?

A.           We removed some soil.  Let me rephrase.  We removed the soil that needed to be removed and we didn’t do anything to the soil that didn’t have any problems.

Q.           So all you did was remove certain amounts of soil?

A.           That’s correct.    

Q.           Do you recall how much money was spent on the removal?

A.           That’s immaterial.  What I can do it for and what you can do it for are two different things.

Q.           But approximate.  I mean, you’re the manager of the property.  Wouldn’t you be looking at the budgets?

A.           No.

Q.           No?       

A.           No.  I just write checks.

Q.           Okay.  In your own Exhibit One, tab C, there is a letter to ---.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              Excuse me.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Yes?

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              I’m confused. 

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Okay.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              What is this thing?

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              That was our exhibit.  That was part of an exhibit in the Environmental Quality Board case, which is Exhibit Number Four in that case.  And this is an excerpt from that which relates to the remediation plan at the time of 1990.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              So this is part of another document that is or is not part of evidence?

                              MRS. FAULKNER:

                              It’s part of evidence, because ---.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Well, the excerpt is part of evidence in this ---.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              This isn’t marked.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Well, Your Honor, I objected to documents Five and Six.  I didn’t receive a ruling from the bench.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              Okay.  Which one are Five and Six?

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Faulkner Exhibit Number Five is the letter from the Jefferson County Schools to the Faulkners, signed by Buster Nicholson.  Faulkner Exhibit Number Six is a document that has HTS in the upper  left-hand corner. 

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Now, these two documents have not been identified by the witness and therefore they’re not admitted. 

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Okay.  Fine.

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, you state that you have an Environmental Quality --- or Department of Environmental Protection permit for Old Standard, LLC.  What is the status of that permit at the moment?

A.           We are in remediation.  We’re following through on our voluntary remediation program.

Q.           The permit for discharge, what is the status of the discharge permit from the DEP?

A.           I believe that’s been challenged by the Water Quality Board.

Q.           Thank you.  Do you have any review, as manager of Sheridan, LLC, over the sales of parcels at that site?

A.           What do you mean by the review of ---?       

Q.           In other words, the brochures, the training, the hiring of any of the sales people?

A.           No.

Q.           So who does?

A.           K. Hovnanian.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Could you spell that, please?

A.           It's K, period, Hovnanian, H-O-V-N-A-N-I-A-N.

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Keep your voice up, please.

A.           Sorry.

Q.           Do you meet with this person on any regular basis?

A.           No.  Mr. Hovanian lives in a different strata.

Q.           And you have no role in talking to anyone on the sales site?

A.           No.

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, when you lobbied for Senate Bill 700, was it because you did not think you could attain standards of PSC ---?

A.           No.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              That goes clear beyond the propriety.  Don't go back to the law and see how it was made.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Okay.  Then I'm completely through.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, ---

A.           Yes, sir.

Q.           --- I'm trying to get a little bit of a timeline here.  The Sheridan LLC was actually filed sometime in 2002 with the Secretary of State's office?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           And then Old Standard filed with the Secretary of State's office, I believe, early in 2003?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           And I'm just going to --- I think to provide a timeline for this Commission, I'm looking back --- I'm going to go back about a year or two.  And the reason is ---.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              At this particular time I'd like to have it identified as Staff Exhibit Number One.

(Staff Exhibit Number One marked for identification.)

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Could you actually read --- it's a very short order, the Commission approval order.  Are you aware of that particular document or the Commission Order?

A.           No.  And I bought the property with Mr. Capriotti.  He told me that he had a mainline extension agreement, and that's where I left it.

Q.           But now with looking at the Sheridan LLC, that you're just a manager of Sheridan, LLC?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           With this Mr. Capriotti, this was, for the Commission's aspect, very summarized, was an alternative mainline extension agreement with the Jefferson County PSD, and Gene Capriotti --- there was a final order of the Commission October 22nd, 2001.  That does predate the organization of both Sheridan and also Old Standard; correct?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           So then is it your understanding that this was the way Mr. Capriotti obtained --- put in the sewer lines in the Sheridan development for the 178 lots?

A.           Well, we went through --- or he told me he went through an extensive number of iterations.  He started out with an approved site on site to do his own treatment, which would go in Flowing Springs.  Then he changed to go back to Charles Town or to Patrick Henry, I think it is.  And throughout our conversations at that time that we were going through the throes of closing on the property, he continuously and always said it was about 18,000 feet the way he had easements purchased.  I have never seen a piece of paper that had 8,650 feet of linear force main.  It was always 18,000 feet.  And if I scale it out today, it's still 18,000 feet, regardless of what kind of number is on this piece of paper.

Q.           At this particular time, are you authorized to speak on behalf of the Sheridan LLC?

A.           Yes, sir.  That's why I'm here.

Q.           And looking at your Notice of Filing, is the Sheridan property Homeowners Association, is that also owned by Sheridan LLC?

A.           No.  I think it's a separate organization.  I'll be honest with you, I don't remember.  I just asked the

--- Mr. Crawford, our attorney in town, to set it up so that we had a viable homeowners association.  I believe I'm the manager of that also.

Q.           So then either the Sheridan Homeowners Association or Sheridan LLC, there's nothing in the file or indication as to the status that either one of those entities is requesting sewer service from Old Standard LLC?

A.           That could be, yeah.  I don't know what's in the file.

Q.           But as a manager of Sheridan LLC, have you made a request or looking to get served by the Old Standard LLC?

A.           Well, since I'm a manager of both, I can look in the mirror and ask myself to provide service.  That’s really what you're asking.  Since the manager of both organizations, I really don't have to make a formal request to myself.

Q.           With that said, that is the desire of Sheridan LLC, is to receive --- currently to receive sewer service from the Old Standard?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           Looking at after the Sheridan LLC was created, at different times as manager of the Sheridan LLC, did you approach the Jefferson County Public Service District to actually make a request for services to serve the 178 lots in Sheridan?

A.           What are you asking, for individual lot permits?

Q.           No.  I'm asking you, as the manager of Sheridan LLC, did you make any types of requests to the Jefferson County PSD to receive sewer service?

A.           Well, we had a mainline extension agreement, if that's what you're asking me.

Q.           Okay.  And can you tell me what happened or did not happen with that mainline extension agreement?

A.           Well, it became obvious at the end of 2003 that there was no capacity in the Breckenridge facility.  As I testified earlier, the folks at the PSD introduced me to Mr. Pittcairn (phonetic), who's sitting back in the back. And he and the folks at Enviroquip made a presentation as to the quality of the effluent that would be produced from a facility that we could not build on a piece of property that we had close by.  So in the course of the next several months, we engaged Mr. McDonald to draft up documents which we presented to the PSD and, after some give and take, they accepted.  And then we, in mid 2004, reversed our flow to go east instead of west.

Q.           So is it your understanding that the Breckenridge Pump Station is owned by the Jefferson County Public Service District?

A.           I assume so.  Who owns it is immaterial to me.  When the man says it can't pump any of my flow, that's all I needed to know is to find an alternative for how we get rid of that flow.

Q.           Well, if you can recall, who made those representations about the Breckenridge Pump Station to yourself?

A.           Ms. Lawton and some of her staff.

Q.           Ms. Lawton is the manager of the Jefferson County PSD?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           So with that, did you approach Ms. Lawton about building a line from the Sheridan development over to the Breckenridge ---?

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              Mr. Robertson, can I ask you something? I understood in your opening statement that Staff approved the application subject to confirmation and financial stability and subject to the feasibility of another site.  Am I mistaken?

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              I'll say to a degree.  Staff's first recommendation is looking at taking the Sheridan development and going back to the Breckenridge Pump Station for orderly and timely development.  In the alternative, the Staff would have looking at the other contingencies of approving the Old Standard plant.  But the Staff's first preference in this particular case is to have the Sheridan development go back in and tie into the Breckenridge Pump Station.  And we will have testimony and evidence showing that that will work.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              I didn't understand that from your opening.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Okay.  Sorry about that.

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           I believe, Mr. Jonkers, I was asking you that did you or Sheridan LLC approach the district or Ms. Lawton about running a mainline extension from the Sheridan Development in a westerly direction to tie into the Breckenridge Pump Station?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Could you repeat the first part of that question?

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Yes.

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           With Sheridan LLC, did you talk or have written information from Sue Lawton, manager of a public service district, approaching them about running a mainline extension, a main sewer line extension, from the Sheridan development into a westerly direction to tie into the Breckenridge Pump Station?

A.           I couldn't tell you the answer to that specifically.  I can tell you that we had a mainline extension agreement to go west for 18,000 feet.

Q.           Okay.

A.           And when we concluded the costs of the 18,000 feet, the lack of capacity at the pump station and then the ensuing lack of capacity in Charles Town, it became evident that we had to have an alternative solution.  And the alternative solution was a property that we purchased in 2003 at the Old Standard Quarry, which was substantially closer.  That fits in with this 8,000 feet that's in the mainline extension agreement that you handed me, then would allow us to provide service in a much more timely fashion.

Q.           Did the District inform Sheridan LLC that they had a moratorium on the Breckenridge Pump Station?

A.           They told us there was no additional capacity.  And if you go back through the minutes of their June or July meeting of 2004, they asked the PSC for a moratorium issue for the whole county because there was no additional capacity, which was in the same timeframe that they approved our four documents for going to Old Standard.

Q.           And do you know if the Commission has actually approved that moratorium?

A.           No, they didn't.  But you know, whether you approve it or not, the fact is there is no --- there are no taps being issued, so there is a moratorium.

Q.           Moving on to another topic, looking at --- Mr. McDonald asked you questions about --- with Old Standard, I'm looking at the certificate application with Old Standard.  Once the construction of the treatment plant is built, Old Standard builds it, then what is actually going to be the process to turning that particular plant and collection lines over to the district?  I suppose you have different answers             .

A.           No, we don't have different answers.  You have copies of those four documents.  You've studied them.  You've looked at them and you know exactly what the process is.

Q.           Earlier in your testimony you said that --- first of all, you said that after the 178 lots had been milled out, then at that particular time, that Old Standard would convey the property, the assets, over to the District.  Then you said, I believe, anywhere from about 15 to 20 houses then will be conveyed.  So I'm trying to get ---.

A.           No.  I don't think I said anything about 15 to 20 houses.  I don't remember saying that at all.

Q.           Let me try to reclassify that.  I believe you said that sometime after the plant is built, sometime.

A.           Right.

Q.           So that's ---?

A.           That's exactly what I said because basically you had --- there's a shakedown period.  There's an operating maintenance agreement wherein they are paid to operate and maintain the plant and get it up and running and operating correctly and wherein during that time period I'm financially responsible for making sure that they have no losses.  And I would presume that after about a year and a half of operation, it will pay for itself because of the development of the lots.

Q.           Looking at then the timing mechanism of going and conveying this over to the District, as you're sitting here today, is it your testimony that Old Standard is going to become a certificated utility?

A.           That was not the original intent in terms of having the homeowners association be our single customer. But that is still whatever --- whether they are a single customer or not be a single customer, then --- if we have a certificate, then I guess we'll be the utility.

Q.           All right.  Then if you are granted the certificate, then you would be filing rates and charges here with an approved tariff with the Commission?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, he's getting into some legal issues here, you know.  We said in the application that we intend to use the rates of the JCPSD.  JCPSD is going to bill the customers, they're going to run the plant, they're going to use their own rates.  We want to get rid of this just as soon as we reasonably can.  So as to whether we have to file a tariff here, I don't know.  Maybe this is something you need to tell us what to do.  This is a unique project.  This is a new idea.  We'll do what you tell us to do.  But we just want to build this plant and get it running right and turn it over to the utility.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              The reason for my line of questioning of Mr. Jonkers, I believe it's very key, from the Staff's perspective and also the Commission's perspective, depending upon if this is going to be an immediate transfer over to the District or it's going to be some lag of time where Old Standard would be a certificated utility.  And the reason for that is, the Staff's concern is if you have 30, 40, 50 lots served in the Sheridan development and the district does not have the ownership of this collection line and the plant and someone in the development files a complaint, the question is, who do they file a sewer complaint with?  If it's not the District's ownership of it, then you have to have some way to file a complaint regarding the sewer service.  And that was my reasoning for asking those questions.  If the District doesn't own it, Old Standard has to own it.  So then at least somebody can file a complaint with the Commission if there's inaccurate sewer service, other complaint issues.  And that was looking at it from the Staff's concern of having a utility, so a complaint could be filed so then we would have jurisdiction to investigate the complaint.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              How does that address the two conditions that you've cited?

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              One is looking at --- I'm going to get into the financial considerations.  The other is looking at if Old Standard is going to be the utility that runs this operation or if it's going to be the District.  If it's the District, they're already a regulated utility by this Commission and there's a complaint filed, then Staff can go and investigate the complaint. 

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              Just asking.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              But that wasn't my reason for     asking ---.

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              We'll let him answer, okay.

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, then looking at this with Old Standard, is it Old Standard's intentions to become a certificated public utility or a private utility regulated by this Commission?

A.           The intent of our agreements are to turn this thing over just as quickly as we can.  It's my understanding that until we hit 25 customers, we don't need to have --- we're not a utility.  And it would be obviously my desire to turn this thing over as quickly as possible so we don't end up with a --- I don't want to be in the utility business.  I have no interest in being in the utility business.  I don't want to send out bills or collect this or that or the other.  That's their job.

Q.           With my line of questioning of looking at the Staff and the Commission, of looking at if there was a complaint filed, do you understand at least the Staff's rationale for that line of questioning?

A.           Well, I would have to agree with the Commissioner that, you know, based on --- we recommended that the certificate be approved after we look at going to Charles Town, that we've gone afield.

Q.           Does Old Standard --- if the Commission, with the evidence, grants Old Standard the certificate to build this plant, does Old Standard, once it is up and operational, before it's even hooking up any customers, does Old Standard have a problem with immediately conveying it to the Jefferson County Public Service District?

A.           I'm not hesitating because I'm trying to think about the combination and permutations of what you're saying, I'm ---

Q.           Take your time.

A.           --- just --- don't see a need to be in that big a rush.  We've got issues that any new structure and/or mechanical facility has.  And for us to turn it over before we've had any kind of a shakedown of the project I think would be foolhardy, because then you just add one more level of people involved in getting it running right.  I think getting it run properly and operational is more important than the immediacy of turning it over.

Q.           So looking at then getting it on line, getting it operational, until operations checks out A-okay, is it the intentions of Old Standard to hook up any customers before that time?

A.           I don't think you can operate the plant without any customer flow coming to it.

Q.           But you want to guarantee, I'll say a test run of this plant, before you convey it over to the District?

A.           Right.

Q.           And that's the reason for the Staff's concern, was even if you start hooking up customers and have not finished all the checklist of being operationally sound and there's a complaint filed, the Commission needs to be aware of that complaint; wouldn't you agree?

A.           I don't know why you'd be involved in any complaint on something that is just going through a shakedown.  Why would you be involved?  We're doing the repair work.  We're doing the fix-up work.  Why would you get involved?

Q.           The Staff would get involved, and the reason is because possibly it affects a customer.  And you said that you didn't want to bill customers; correct?

A.           That's right.  That's why we have an operations and a maintenance agreement with the PSD.

Q.           And that's an O&M agreement?

A.           Right.

Q.           Then have you had another agreement, such as a billing agreement, or is that contained in the O&M agreement?

A.           That would be in the O&M.

               ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

               If I could just have a second?

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              May I ask a question?  Does the O&M agreement cover the test period?

A.           Yes, sir.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              At this time the Staff has no other witnesses (sic) of Mr. Younger, so we'd like to reserve the right to recall him.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Do any other parties have questions of Mr. Jonkers?  We'll grant that.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              You'll grant that?

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Yes.  Thank you.  You may be excused.

A.           Thank you.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, I have one or two questions on Redirect.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           You were asked some questions, Mr. Jonkers, about planning and zoning approval of the Sheridan Subdivision.  Have the planning and zoning folks in Jefferson County recently approved the movement of the wastewater to the Old Standard plant and away from Charles Town?

A.           Yes, they have.  We submitted a new set of plans, red line revisions.  The Planning Commission approved the staff, the Jefferson County Planning Staff, the right to authorize that change last October and --- I believe it was October.  And we have submitted all of the redesign and they have been signed off and we have applied for building permits to get the project started.

Q.           So when the Faulkners filed a lawsuit against the Planning Commission last week about that, that did not stop the process of proceeding at ---

A.           No, sir.

Q.           --- Sheridan; is that right?

A.           No.

Q.           You were asked a couple questions about your relationship with the school board and the offer to the school board to provide wastewater service to them.  Did you cause a proposal to be made to the school board at some point?

A.           Yes, we did.

Q.           I hand you a two-sheet package of papers and ask could you explain this to the Commission?  What is this?

A.           This is an outline of various projects that we have in Jefferson County.  And I asked Mr. Chakmakian, an attorney in Charles Town, to make a proposal to the school board wherein we would provide a new Board of Education school building on a project we're doing in Ranson in exchange for some dollars and their support of various projects.  One of the projects that would also come their way would be the addition of Shipley School to the --- we would provide access to the sewer plant for Shipley School, and we would provide a bus facility on Old Standard.  None of that was ever acted on.  It was submitted --- it was offered.  It was not acted on, so it kind of died a natural death, although we are still talking about building them a new school board office at their Blackford Farms project.

Q.           Are you saying that the Shipley School and the school board has lost interest in the Old Standard project or it just ---?

A.           No.  What they lost interest in was supporting our various rezoning efforts.  They never acted upon it. But as late as --- I want to say a month ago, maybe a little bit longer, they are still interested in having Shipley School hooked up to the sewer line so that they can abandon the septic field that is currently serving Shipley School.

Q.           And you've actually discussed that subject with the Superintendent of Schools; have you not?

A.           That's correct, the superintendent and the head of the school board.

Q.           I hand you a letter dated June 9, 2005, addressed to whom it may concern from the superintendent of the school board.  Would you explain this letter to the Commission, please?

A.           Well, when it became clear that the Faulkners were questioning my veracity, I asked Mr. Nichols, Doctor Nichols, to confirm that we had had these discussions about Shipley School.  And he did so in a very lawyerly fashion to avoid any conflicts.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have the school board proposal marked for identification as Old Standard Exhibit 13 and the to whom it may concern letter marked as Old Standard Exhibit 14?

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              I object to the second letter, Mr. Chairman, on the ground that it is not notarized and we do not know if that, in fact, is the signature.  It is a fax actually from Jonkers, LLC.  It is not from the school board itself.  As an alternative, if they're going to reference this letter as the witness just stated in response to our foyer request, then the foyer request should be put in --- place this letter in the proper context.

A.           This letter was written after the foyer request.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              I'm going to deny the objection and we'll put this in for whatever weight it deserves.

(Old Standard Exhibit Numbers 13 and 14 marked for identification.)

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              I have no further questions of Mr. Jonkers.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Is there any other need for Cross?  You may step down.  Thank you.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              The Staff has one or two other questions.  I'll be very quick, Mr. Jonkers.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Mr. Jonkers, I guess you're still there.

RECROSS EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, I'm not going to get into the issues, but with the red line, what you call the red line version of the Jefferson County Planning & Zoning Commission, for Sheridan Development, was that to take the sewage that was going to be sent to Charles Town to redirect it to the Old Standard place?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           And that was done, as you said, in October of 2004?

A.           No.  No.  The approval from the Planning Commission --- what happened was Mr. Rocco (phonetic), who's head of planning, zoning and engineering, did not feel comfortable in accepting a redirect of the sewage flow without authorization from the Planning Commission. The Planning Commission voted to give him that authority. We supplied him with the documents, and it has been processed and approved.

Q.           And do you know approximately when that date of that ---?

A.           The actual approval?

Q.           Yes.

A.           July 6th.

Q.           July 6th of?

A.           2005.

Q.           2005.  So that's recently happened?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           So with Sheridan LLC, organizing in 2002, from 2002 up to July 6th, approximately July 2005, the intentions of the Sheridan LLC from that time up to the July 2005 approval was to send the sewage to Charles Town?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Well, objection.

A.           No.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              That question ---.

A.           No, it was ---.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Let me finish my objection.  Counsel is well aware of the filing that was made at this Commission in 2003, pursuant to which the developers of Sheridan would enter into an agreement with the Jefferson County Public Service District for the PSD to build a treatment plant.  So the question is based on a faulty assumption.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Well, let me move on.

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Mr. Jonkers, the only other thing, at this particular time you are aware that at least --- I know your Counsel brought it up, also that the Faulkners have filed a Circuit Court suit in Jefferson County with the Planning and Zoning Commission?

A.           They've filed so many suits, it's just one of many.

Q.           So you're unaware of that?

A.           I'm aware of it.

Q.           You're aware of it?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And is that --- do you know if that proceeding is still pending at this time?

A.           It just got filed, so yes.  Their other suit got thrown out, but this one is still pending.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Thank you, Mr. Jonkers.  I still would reserve the right to call Mr. Jonkers at a later time.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Okay.  Thank you.  Let's have a break. We'll expect you back at ten after 1:00.

LUNCH BREAK TAKEN

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              One of the things I've noticed, since we've had only one witness on the stand and as the extensive witness list was noted by Jefferson County, I would ask that you call witnesses that only bring relevant and new information.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, the parties have conferred and have agreed and would like to ask the Commission's indulgence to take some witnesses somewhat out of order in order to accommodate their travel plans.  We've agreed that the next witness will be Old Standard's Jason Allen, following him JCPSD's Marty Kable.  Following him, the Staff's witness, Jane Arnett.  I'd call Jason Allen.

--------------------------------------------------------

JASON ALLEN, HAVING FIRST BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

--------------------------------------------------------

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Would you state your name and business address, please, sir?

A.           My name is Jason Allen.  My business address is 2404 Rutland Drive, Austin, Texas.

Q.           By whom are you employed?

A.           Enviroquip, Incorporated.

Q.           And in what capacity?

A.           I am a support engineer/project manager for the company, for the company's MBR division.

Q.           MBR stands for membrane bioreactor?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           What business is Enviroquip in?

A.           We're essentially a best available technology provider for wastewater treatment.  Currently, the MBR group is --- we're the sole licensee for Kubota membranes in North America.

Q.           What responsibility do you have for the Old Standard Wastewater Treatment Plant project?

A.           Essentially I interact with a national sales team of representatives.  I develop designs for preliminary proposals for clients that wish to use our membrane products.  If it goes beyond that, I begin developing the purchase orders and support the regional engineers on the project from start to finish.

Q.           All right.  Is that what you've done on the Old Standard project?

A.           I'd say that pretty much describes it.

Q.           Would you briefly describe the wastewater treatment plant that Old Standard has ordered?

A.           Essentially they're getting a membrane bioreactor plant.  This plan essentially, from our perspective, is going to cover everything from a fine screen to the UV discharge.  In between those two points they'll essentially have three different process basins, an anoxic basin, a peroration basin and an MBR basin.  Essentially the bulk of the work is done in that MBR basin, where wastewater is essentially filtered through a membrane cartridge, and that's how we generate our client water.  I think that's about the easiest way to describe it.

Q.           Would you describe this technology as state of the art?

A.           This is the best available technology which is classified as state-of-the-art.

Q.           Where been some talk already of the so-called  Chesapeake Bay standards.  Can you shed any light on what those are and the role your plant will play in meeting them when they are determined?

A.           It's my understanding that there's two basic criteria for the proposed standards.  They're basically built around flow rate or flow capacity of the plant.  Old Standard is basically in the short end of the permit restrictions.  They don't have to be as tight as some of the larger facilities.  Basically what we look at are BOD, TSS, total nitrogen and total phosphorus on discharge.  Currently, this plant is less than five PPM on BOD and TSS, less than eight PPM on total nitrogen and less than .1 on total phosphorus.  And I think that probably best describes the plant.

Q.           Now, Chesapeake Bay standards have not been established yet; is that true?

A.           That's my understanding.  They've been proposed, but not necessarily adopted.  And there's a tighter set of restrictions for larger scale, larger flow rate plants.

Q.           Do you believe that your plant is capable of adapting to whatever standards are ultimately adopted?

A.           I don't think there is an adaption.  We can meet or exceed any of the regulations that are proposed.

Q.           This is a 50,000-gallon-per-day plant.  Is it expandable?  And please explain.

A.           We were asked by the client to give him a plant with initial capacity to handle 50,000 gallons per day and with the capacity at some time in the future to extend that capacity up to 125,000 gallons per day average flow rate.  And that's essentially what we're designed for.

Q.           So initially it will be filled for 50,000 gallons per day, but how much work will it take to expand it to 100,000 or 125,000 per day?

A.           The initial phase, he'll have all the equipment in lieu of membrane cassettes to handle the

125,000-gallon-per-day flow rate.  As his flow demand dictates, he'll essentially call Enviroquip and say, I need more membranes, my flow rate is going to go up by X amount, and we'll order the membranes that will allow him to support that additional flow rate.  And essentially he'll take --- order those and drop the cassettes into, you know, pre-erected assemblies in the basins, and he'll be able to go directly to that demand flow rate.

Q.           Have you provided me with photographs of a similar MBR plant?

A.           Yes, sir, I have.

Q.           I'm going to hand you a photograph that's not labeled or numbered, but we'll ask that it be marked for identification as Old Standard next number.  Fifteen (15)?

(Old Standard Exhibit Number 15 marked for identification.)

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           I ask you to explain what I have just handed you, please.

A.           You've handed me a photo of an existing facility in New Mexico, the Casa Blanca Wastewater Treatment Plant.  This is a sister project to a Rio Puerto project. This plan is in a similar capacity and arrangement to the Old Standard plant.  And essentially what you're looking at here is an MBR basin without any clean water or mixed liquor in the basin.  Each individual unit here in the basin is actually an ES200.  It's a particular model of membrane that we offer.  Each one of these membranes has essentially 200 plates per membrane.

Q.           200 plates per membrane?

A.           200 plates per membrane.  Essentially, what you're looking at in the basin is an MBR cassette.  Within that cassette there are multiple plates.  A plate essentially --- I think we have an example of one in the back room, but essentially the plate is the actual surface --- it's the actual filter where the mixed liquor will pass over one part of it.  A pump --- a small suction head will be applied to that plate, and then clean water will be pulled through that plate itself.  And that's effectively the filter.  What you're looking at here is part of the construction.  This plant was about two weeks away from doing a clean water test.  It was in the process of having a mechanical check-out completed.

Q.           All right.  Here's another picture.  Is this from the same plant?

A.           This is the same plant.  And the reason this was given is it's a similar --- we're going to be looking at something similar for the Old Standard application.  What you're looking at here are two permeate pumps.  These are the pumps that will actually put a small pressure head on the membrane cassettes themselves.  They'll pull --- they'll pull a suction head on the permeate plate.  They'll pull clean water essentially through the plate and then discharge it into these collection headers that are --- that the pumps themselves are tied to, and then subsequently discharge to a disinfection system, in this case, a UV disinfection system.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have this photograph marked as Exhibit 16?

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              It will be so marked.

(Old Standard Exhibit Number 16 marked for identification.)

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Here's another picture of some pipes.  Would you explain the picture that's now being handed out?

A.           Again, this is also from the Casa Blanca plant. This is just a different view of the same materials that we were looking at in a different phase of the construction or the piping construction and configuration.  Essentially what you're looking at here are the permeate headers themselves coming out of the basin.  If we go back to the first picture, each one of these membrane cassettes --- if you go back to the first photo you can see a gray tube that runs the --- that runs perpendicular to the basin length.  That tube then connects to a hose that penetrates the wall.  That hose then penetrates a wall through a piping connection and then connects to each of these permeate headers themselves that lay outside of the basin.  That's where your clean water is going to be discharged.  And essentially it's discharged to this header, to the pump, from the pump to the disinfection system.

Q.           I'll hand you another photograph, a picture of a guy on a ladder in the back.  Explain that photograph.

A.           Again, this is just a different view.  Again, the same plant, Casa Blanca, similar size.  We're giving the client essentially an indication on what could be considered as a building configuration.  Currently, this person right now is working on the control system for the plant.  In this case, he's working on a MCC control center, which is a motor control center.  This center essentially is where you get the automated control of all of your equipment.  Via plant programming, a computer will interlink with this MCC control and tell the plant that a pump needs to be turned on.  That's essentially what this person is looking at.

Q.           I'll hand you a photograph of what appears to be a well with sinks in the bottom of it.  What's that picture?

A.           Again, this is also the Casa Blanca plant.  This was --- this precedes all the photos that you've looked at thus far.  Essentially you're looking --- the foreground, the piece that's on the basin floor is actually a diffuser bottom.  It's part of the MBR system. Up against the back wall is an actual MBR unit that's wrapped in plastic.  Essentially that unit will be placed on top of the diffuser bottom.  The unit that's to be placed on top of the diffuser bottom is actually in the bottom of the picture, attached to a crane lift assembly. That membrane cassette will be lifted, turned 90 degrees and placed on the diffuser bottom.  The drop piping in this picture is actually your air piping.  You'll have a supply side air that will discharge air into the diffuser bottom.  The diffuser then will essentially direct airflow up through the membrane cartridges.  This airflow is just a process-specific, I guess, factor of the design.  Essentially the airflow will scour a biofilm that occurs on the plates and also maintain the biology growth within the basin.  The pipe on the left is an actual discharge header.  When we want to clean that diffuser on the bottom of the basin without drawing down any water, we'll essential open the valve on the discharge side, suck mixed liquor in through the diffuser bottom, discharge it through the out-take side, and we essentially have a maintenance-free diffuser.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have the photograph with the boxes on the pallet and the empty box on the shelf marked as 17, the picture with the guy on the ladder marked as 18, and a photograph that the witness just described marked as 19?

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              They'll be so marked.

(Old Standard Exhibit Numbers 17, 18 and 19 marked for identification.)

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           I hand you now what appears to be another view of the assembly process.  Explain, please.

A.           Again, this is correct.  In this instance, essentially the client needed to get --- they needed to treat demand flows as soon as possible.  So what we did basically, after they got the concrete poured and in place, we came in and started erecting the membrane cassettes with the contractor so essentially they could get the plant on line as quickly as they possibly could and begin treating flows.  And often, the easiest way to do that is as soon as the equipment --- or as soon as the concrete is placed and before the building is erected, we go ahead and place the membrane cassettes.  And then essentially as the equipment check-out is completed, the contractor can essentially complete the building at his leisure.  And as soon as the equipment check-out is completed and the permeate clean water test is done, they can start treating discharge.  So this photo is just an extension of the photo prior to it.  It just has all of the diffuser bottoms placed, and they're ready to place the membrane cassettes themselves on the diffuser decks.

Q.           Finally, I hand you a photograph that appears to be in the process of placing the membranes in a structure that did not have a building around it.  Explain that.

A.           Again, this is also the Casa Blanca plant.  This is just a different phase of that construction, and it's just giving you an indication on what lifting assembly might be required to lift one of these decks and place them into the basin.  And again, this is about the same time that the preceding photo was used.  This would just be another membrane cassette deck being placed on top of a diffuser bottom prior to the finished building construction.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have the most recent photograph marked as Number 21 and the one prior to that Number 20?

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              So marked.

(Old Standard Exhibit Numbers 20 and 21 marked for identification.)

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Now, you have provided to Old Standard, which, in turn, provided to the Staff certain cost estimates throughout the course of this proceeding; have you not?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           And have you had further discussions as this case has wound on with Lee Snyder about those costs?

A.           Yes, sir.

Q.           And are you in agreement that the costs that he will prepare are supported by Enviroquip?

A.           Essentially the --- there's been a lot of discussion with Lee Snyder and Enviroquip.  Essentially the balance of the material that he has, we helped develop with Lee.  We gave him the initial numbers.  He's had some --- he's essentially initiated some changes which we would stand behind.

Q.           Thank you.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, that concludes my Direct Examination.  The witness is available for Cross Examination.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Thank you.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY KELSH:

Q.           Mr. Allen, just a few quick questions.  This plant is going to serve a subdivision which currently has zero homes built, expected to expand over three years to about 180 homes.  Are there any particularly difficult to overcome operational problems for this plant when it receives a low volume of flows?

A.           If a low volume of flow is 25 gallons a day, then yes.  If it takes two months to fill a process basin prior to the MBR, then yes.  If a low flow meaning that I only get 5,000 gallons a day, you know, in multiple batches, with the flow that's, you know, rated at --- that's about ten percent of the flow capacity, then I would --- I'd say no.

Q.           Okay.

A.           Essentially, if we had mixed liquor in the basins, we had operating mixed liquor, concentrations that we've designed for, we can essentially operate without an influent to the plant for as long as 30 days.

Q.           Okay.  Does a low-flow situation imperil the quality of the effluent?

A.           In this case, no.  If you're looking at a larger plant, say a million gallons per day, and you're only getting 2,000 gallons per day and you have to meet the more strict discharge limits of the Chesapeake Bay watershed standards, then potentially.  When you have to go down to a 3TN, you have multiple process basins, then potentially we would have to redesign some of the preliminary functions of the plant.  We may need to dose with a carbon source, for instance.  We may need to redirect plant flows to different process basins.  They're not going to cause problems.  What they're going to essentially do is dictate operational protocol.

Q.           So is it fair to say that they're problems, but they're problems that you've encountered before and they can be overcome?

A.           Right.  As long as we have good information from the client, giving us the exact expected flow rates, and we do get that, we do see that in the field, then yes, we can manage those flow rates.

Q.           You know, a wastewater plant is obviously going to receive wastewater.  Is there any local water or other water that is used in this process?

A.           There's no potable water required for, let's say, pump seals or anything else.  The only water that's used in this plant outside of the process is water that would be used to wash down the fine screens.  And we can actually use permeate to do that.  So I can run a hose line off of my permeate discharge line prior or after the disinfection system and actually run plant water back for that.  I don't need a potable water supply for my system, but the state may require potable water for an eye wash. But as far as for my system, I don't require a potable water source.

               ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Thank you.  That's all I have.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           What is the overall dimensions of the facility in Casa Blanca, the footprint on the ground?

A.           I can't tell you.  I don't know that off the top of my head, but it's marginally similar to what we're looking at for Old Standard.  And if you want an assumed footprint, I'd say under 50-by-70, and that's including the building.  And that's just a guess.

Q.           Okay.  That's fine.  And in terms of the three basins, about how deep are they?

A.           The basins are going to run similar, so no more than 12 feet deep.

Q.           Is that all above ground or do you excavate into the ground?

A.           You can do it either way.

Q.           How much sludge does a --- would a plant generate, especially a 50,000 gallon plant?

A.           The sludge production is going to vary depending on BOD concentration of the influent, the volume of flow coming to the plant, the mixed liquor operating condition point for the plant and the plant SRT.  So there's no real --- you know, you'd have to give me real numbers on what I'm to design for and I'll give you numbers for that.

Q.           In the Casa Blanca plant, is it operational?

A.           The Casa Blanca plant is operational.

Q.           So what is your experience in ---?

A.           I don't have anything to do with the Casa Blanca plant.  That's outside of my region, and I don't have real numbers for that.

Q.           Okay.

A.           I mean, I can talk about projections on something I've done, if you want to do that.

Q.           Well, have you done a similar-sized plant of the 50,000 to 125,000 range?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And what is the sludge --- and I guess how often does the sludge have to be cleaned out?

A.           Well, it really --- the frequency on cleaning the --- or disposing of the sludge is really up to the operator and up to the storage quantity.  And generally that's developed, you know, under regional jurisdiction. Depending on if you're going to land apply the sludge, if you're going to do something else with the sludge, that's a regional application.  I think in this situation, around 25,000 gallons with a very heavy loading, 435 BOD PPM on the BOD, you're operating at a high mixed liquor concentration, you can look anywhere from about 12,500 to 30,000 gallons per month.  But it really depends on what you're looking at, on the flow that you're looking at, on the SRT, on the mixed liquor concentrations and the BOD concentrations.

Q.           Do any of your plants handle industrial waste?

A.           Yes, we do.

Q.           Does that require any additional modification for the plant?

A.           No.  Industrial loadings --- what we consider industrial loadings generally are loadings above 1,000 PPM BOD.  You're never going to get near that for one here.  And the 435 that we designed for we believe is over --- is an over design anyway.  However, if you do get into industrial loadings, especially loadings that have high calcium concentrations, loadings that are going to cause potential scale on the membrane pipe themselves, what we generally do is we back off on the flux rate.  And essentially what that means is instead of giving you five membranes to do at a specified flow rate, I'm now going to give you seven membranes to do at a specified flow rate.  But essentially we don't --- I mean, we've handled --- I've handled designs that have in excess of 15,000 PPM BOD as far as an industrial load.  But essentially what we're doing is we're pulling off for flux rate.  Generally the flux rate is what we design for on all of our plants, and it's based on temperature.  If I have a nine-degree C temperature minimum operating condition point in the winter, that's going to dictate my flux rate.  That's going to dictate my hydraulic capacity.  With industrial, although we're pulling back some of our flux, most industrial plants have a higher influent temperature.  So they're anywhere in the range of 40 degrees C --- you know, as high as 40 degrees C.  So although we're pulling back our flux rate, in comparison to a domestic plant there's not much difference in hydraulic capacity.

Q.           I'm thinking beyond that.  Are there any chemicals that might be generated by any industrial output that the membrane is --- is outside of its stratus?

A.           The only types of chemicals that you're going to have to worry about are generally solvents and solvents in and above beyond what's in the domestic supply anyway. Solvent concentrations have to be very, very high, and that's about the only thing that we would run into a problem with.

Q.           About how many plants currently of this type are in operation in North America?

A.           I can tell you within the next year they'll be close to 100 in operation in North America.

Q.           And have any of them had any violations of pollution permits to date?

A.           Our company has not had any.  We have had no violations whatsoever.  We've had no catastrophic plant failures.

                              MR. FAULKNER:                            

                              That's all the questions.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Good afternoon, Mr. Allen.  With the

50,000-gallons-per-day plant that you designed on behalf of Old Standard, was it my understanding that the phosphorus levels didn't possibly meet the current Chesapeake Bay requirements?

A.           Yes.  It's my understanding .1 is what our target was on phosphorus, that we would meet the current levels.  We can go down below .03.  So if there was a change, we can go even below that phosphorus limitation.

Q.           All right.  And this has a provision that eventually this plant can expand up to 125,000 gallons a day for flows?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           Do you know that that changes the phosphorus level or what has to be occurring at the 125,000 gallon flow level ---?

A.           It's just a dosing rate.  You're going to get the same effluent discharge.  You're going to get the same .1 on discharge.  It's just a dosing rate for ferrichloride or alum dosing in the anoxic is going to increase as the flow demand increases. 

Q.           So basically you would, excuse my ignorance with some of the chemical terminology, but that means you have to increase the dosage of a particular chemical to offset the phosphorus level?

A.           Well, you're not offsetting.  I mean, essentially you're trying to remove more phosphorus.  So in order to get to that, you're going to have to add more chemical to make that happen.  Now, subsequently, we can go to a different --- you know, we have a different scenario that we can use, and that's not something that we need to do on this plant because the tight regulations aren't there, but we can chemically get rid of phosphorus as well as --- by adding chemicals as well as by getting biological uptake in the process.  So we can do both.  We can do it by biological uptake, not add chemical, or we can add chemical, or a combination of the two.

Q.           With this particular plant that you designed, is it going to require a full-time sewer plant operator?

A.           These plants were designed so that --- I mean, and I'm going to speak frankly here.  If we put this plant together, we got through the clean water test, we got three set point conditions for the flow that we're getting at the plant, I can run it from my desk at home in Texas.  I don't need to have someone here every week. I need someone to come out once a week and empty the trash that comes from the screens and to spray the screen box down.  Other than that, I really don't --- I mean, I can set the plant up and run it at home.  I mean, that's what this plant was designed for in Japan and subsequently in Europe.

               Now, what ends up happening is that each municipality around the country has its own classification for how often a plant operator should be at the plant.  Some of the plants that your folks have come down to see in Atlanta, if that guy didn't have grass to mow, a building to paint, he wouldn't have anything to do at the plant on a day-to-day basis.  But the state requires that he be there four to six hours per day.

Q.           And so there could be similar state regulations that would have to have a plant operator there so many hours a day?

A.           That's correct, but I'm not privy to those.

Q.           Right.  Looking at the procedure and what you showed us with the particular pictures of the Casa Blanca plant, what is actually the start-up procedure once this is constructed?  Could you just explain briefly?

A.           Essentially the start-up protocol is going to dictate a changeover from project management to our start-up division.  Once the project management group comes out and does chemical check-out, maintains that all the interconnecting piping was done correctly, that all the rotating equipment has been installed correctly and in working order, then the start-up group is going to come out.  That start-up group is going to sit down with whoever has been selected to do the plant operations.  They're going to sit down with him and do a training session for a couple of days with any potential plant operators.  After that training session, then we're going to do what's called a clean water test.  We're going to fill the MBR basins with clean water and we're going to pull permeate, although off of clean water, we're essentially going to establish a fixed point permeability number at the plant.  And then we'll start essentially integrating with the operator how to work the plant with clean water.  After the clean water has been --- the test has been completed, then the client is going to bring in some seed sludge.  The seed sludge will be introduced into the plant.  After the seed sludge has been introduced, we get the seed sludge working, we're going to start taking raw influent into the plant.

Q.           Let me just ask you at that particular point in time.  So then this seed sludge that you're talking about is sort of trucked in?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           So it's not like you're hooking up individual customers, making a test run, ---

A.           No.

Q.           --- you're bringing in ---?

A.           Generally speaking, you will truck it in.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Thank you, Mr. Allen.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Any Cross?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              No Redirect, Your Honor.  Your Honor, may the witness be excused from further participation in this hearing?

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              If I hear no objections.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              I was just going to rise up and say that Staff has no objection to excuse Mr. Allen.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              So be it.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Thank you.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Commissioners, by agreement the District has been permitted to examine one of its witnesses out of turn.  I'd like to call Marty Kable to the stand at this time.

--------------------------------------------------------

MARTY KABLE, HAVING FIRST BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

--------------------------------------------------------

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY KELSH:

Q.           Mr. Kable, could you spell your name for the court reporter?

A.           Last one?

Q.           Yes.

A.           K-A-B-L-E.

Q.           All right.

A.           And it's Harry M., initial.  Also go as Marty, M-A-R-T-Y.

Q.           And Mr. Kable, are you the chairman of the Jefferson County Public Service District?

A.           Yes, I am.

Q.           And are you a life-long resident of Jefferson County?

A.           I am.

Q.           In the last few years has the District been approached by many developers and many prospective customers for service?

A.           Yes.

Q.           What has the District's response to those requests been in the last year and a half or so?

A.           That we have to put them on a waiting list, an ever-growing waiting list because we're, in essence, in an undeclared moratorium.

Q.           And these prospective customers, they want to build new buildings in Jefferson County, I presume?

A.           Yes.

Q.           New businesses?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And you're familiar with the circumstances in Jefferson County generally; are you not?

A.           Relevant to the growth?

Q.           Yes.

A.           Yes.

Q.           Are you aware of any factor as significant as the lack of wastewater capacity that is adversely affecting prospective commercial and residential growth?

A.           That is the biggest issue that we have that has stymied our growth for residential and also for our industrial parks.  It's quite an issue there that we're losing revenue by their not being able to move ahead with people that want to come and relocate into our industrial parks.

Q.           There's a lot of residential growth, but you think there might be a greater commercial growth and a greater employment growth in Jefferson County if there were more wastewater capacities?

A.           Very definitely so, yes.

Q.           Do you believe --- well, let me back up.  What wastewater treatment plant does the district rely upon now for wastewater treatment?

A.           All of our flows go to the Charles Town Wastewater Treatment Plant.

Q.           Looking at the expected growth in Jefferson County, do you believe that continued reliance upon that one plant will enable the District to meet its obligation to serve throughout Jefferson County?

A.           No.

Q.           So I take you think that additional wastewater treatment plants are needed in Jefferson County.  Can the District qualify for grants from federal or state agencies?

A.           No.  Our high median income for our area, the eastern panhandle, negates our being --- to receive grants of that nature.

Q.           And the District's current rates, how much does an average residential customer pay approximately for a month of wastewater service from the District?

A.           I think that's around $50 or a little better, yes.  We have very high rates at this point.

Q.           Does that limit your ability to borrow funds to meet the wastewater treatment needs in Jefferson County?

A.           Yes.  If we were to go out and borrow funds to construct collection lines and wastewater treatment plants, I'm sure that our rates would exceed the amount that would be acceptable.

Q.           So under the circumstances you've described, is the District receptive to the possibility of receiving donated facilities from private entities?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And has the District been in negotiations with these private entities over time?

A.           Yes, we have, for the last year and a half approximately.

Q.           What do these private entities want for their investment?

A.           They want to build the infrastructure, the collection lines, wastewater treatment plant, for the opportunity to use the capacity of that plant for their own use.  And in some cases, as we're discussing here now, there would be excess EDUs over and above what is being planned for for this particular development.

Q.           Now, you used the term EDU.  Can you explain what an EDU is?

A.           It's equivalent to the amount of water or discharge from a dwelling unit.  Equivalent to a dwelling unit.

Q.           And do you know approximately how many dwelling units this plant that Old Standard is willing to donate is capable of serving?

A.           I think that's 331, I believe.

Q.           And how many homes does Old Standard want to receive service in the Sheridan development?

A.           178, I believe.

Q.           So they've provided a bigger plant than they really needed to do; is that fair to say?

A.           Correct.

Q.           In this circumstance, do you think it would be appropriate to permit the entity that donates the facilities to have access to some restricted capacity?

A.           Yes.  As I've said, that's what the developer will request or they're not going to move forward with building something that they're not going to have for their own use.

Q.           And what's your understanding of restricted capacity?

A.           That amount of capacity that the developer is willing to --- that he wants back or a guarantee, if you will, to have those EDUs for his project.

Q.           And the opposite of that would be unrestricted capacity.  And what would unrestricted capacity be?

A.           Then that could be used for someone else in that locality or, in this case, if the school so elects to remedy their situation with their septic system, then that could possibly be available for that entity.

Q.           In order for the District to give a developer restricted capacity, what would it expect in return?

A.           What would the District ---?

Q.           What would the District expect in return?

A.           Well, they'd want to have that amount in the project, and then that would just be donated, as I understand it, to the Public Service Commission --- to the Public Service District as a capacity that we could use and benefit from, you know, with other customers.  It would raise the customer base for us.

Q.           So the District would be willing to give a developer who donates facilities restricted capacity if they give some unrestricted capacity as well?

A.           Correct.

Q.           Are you familiar if this is an approved concept in West Virginia or not?

A.           I think this is a first.  I think you're on the cutting edge.  But I think it's a great means of developers or anyone --- we keep using the term developers.  It could be anyone.  I'm in the farming business and have farms that are in the locality that could be developed.  So I, as a property owner, could come forth with this type of agreement to have --- to proceed with developing of one's own property.  It doesn't have to be some developer that came in.

Q.           Or it could be an industrial park tenant?

A.           Yes.  Oh, yes.  Yes.

Q.           Do you think that this concept holds a lot of promise for the District in order to assist it in meeting its duty to serve the county?

A.           Yes.  I think this is a great approach and where the developers --- and they're quite willing.  I've just been amazed at how the developers have come forth and just say, what do you want us to do, when can we do it, you know, how can we do it.  And this approach allows them to move forward with a public/private agreement which starts with our board in the agreements that have been discussed and future agreements that will come forth in the future from various entities.

Q.           Now, if the District were to grant a developer restricted capacity and the Commission were to approve that concept, say that the development is a bomb.  They've been out there trying to sell houses.  Nobody wants to buy their houses.  Would you favor, you know, sort of a limited timeframe for this restricted capacity for the developer?

A.           Yes.  I think you would want to look at the size of the project and the phasing of that project would come into play in figuring how long you'd want to make --- require them to guarantee the economics of the project.

Q.           Okays.  This project, do you believe that once the District takes ownership of this facility and operates it, do you think this will enhance the District's financial position?

A.           Yes.  Very definitely.

Q.           It will help it forestall any further rate increase?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Do you have any additional information you'd like to present to the Commission today?

A.           Only that I think, as I've mentioned, that you're on the cutting edge with this project, and I think it's a great benefit to enable our county, Jefferson County, one of the fastest-growing counties in the state, if not the first, to move ahead and provide adequate wastewater treatment capacity.  Or this can be used for water sources, also.  But it would enable us to move forth in a positive way to expedite the situation that we're in.  It's not been a pleasant situation this past 18 months being in an undeclared moratorium situation, where your hands are virtually tied and with all the influx of the development that has come forth with our being flanked by Virginia and Maryland.  And I think it's just a great opportunity for us to do that. 

               The other thing, as I've mentioned, our industrial parks were stifled somewhat with the highway situation, where they're located.  And Route Nine, which connects us with Interstate 81, is being built.  Dirt is moving as we sit here.  And now they're stifled with no wastewater treatment capacity.  So there's a golden opportunity that is --- they're trying to hand onto with the amount of applicants they have that want to move in here with viable job-producing entities.  So I'm excited about the project.  I think it's workable.  A lot of people are skeptical of it.  Every one of these projects will start at our monthly Public Service District meetings.  There's not going to be anything hidden from anybody.  Our agendas are announced.  And so that's where the project starts and the agreements are drawn.  And it has to meet our board's criteria before it moves any further and then comes into play with the various agreements that we'll be getting into, as you all have reviewed before now. 

Q.           Mr. Kable, a couple times in your testimony you referred to an undeclared moratorium.  I'd like to review that situation a little bit for the benefit of the Commission here.  Around --- I think it was December of 2003, did the Bureau of Public Health stop issuing permits for subdivision collection systems in Jefferson County?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And that was for anyone who's tied in --- who was going to have their wastewater treated in Charles Town Plant; correct?

A.           Correct, relevant to that plant's lack of capacity.

Q.           And did Charles Town work out an understanding with the Bureau of Public Health and DEP?

A.           Yes.  All three entities did.  Charles Town and Ranson and the District came to those agreements, yes.

Q.           It's my recollection, and please confirm if this is consistent with your recollection, that DEP and the Bureau of Public Health said that there's about 150,000 gallons capacity remaining at the Charles Town plant as of March 2004.  Does that sound right?

A.           Correct.

Q.           And the District filed a moratorium case here at the Commission; did it not?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And the parties to that case --- there are several developers who are parties to that case, Charles Town, Ranson and the District were parties.  Did they file a stipulation with the Commission in settlement of that case?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And that stipulation provided for a certain allocation of EDUs among the three entities.  I think Charles Town got about 240 and the District got about 220?

A.           Yeah.  Them are all figures, but it was allocated out, yes.

Q.           And that was filed with the Commission.  And I think an ALJ approved that by a recommended decision?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And then you're familiar with the Holiday Inn Express in the area?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Did the Holiday Inn Express file exceptions to that recommended decision?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And then it's been pending before the Commission ever since?

A.           Correct.

Q.           And I think the recommended decision came out in like the fall of 2004.  Does that sound right to you?

A.           That would be about the right timeframe, yes.

Q.           And even though the Commission hasn't finally approved that, I mean, the exceptions are still pending before the Commission, I believe, the parties have been operating under that stipulation; have they not?

A.           Who did?

Q.           Charles Town and the District.

A.           Oh, yes.  I thought you meant the Holiday Inn Express.  Yes, we've been operating under the --- yes.

Q.           There's not really another alternative to doing so, is there?

A.           Correct.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Thank you.  Some others may have some questions.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              No questions.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              No questions, Your Honor.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Good afternoon, Mr. Kable.  Can you actually tell me from the District's perspective what has actually created the current sewer situation?

                              COMMISSONER SHAW:

                              Has created what?

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              The current sewer situation.

A.           If you could speak up a little bit, I'd appreciate it.

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Sorry about that.  I can speak up.  I was looking at in the District's perspective what has created the current sewer crisis?

A.           Well, lack of activity by our previous boards.  I'm not sure what all happened there, but nothing happened.  And it is haunting us today.  Plus the great influx of home buyers and developers and builders that have come to Jefferson County from the Maryland and --- northern Virginia and Maryland.  And land prices have escalated greatly.  Properties are changing hands quite frequently, being bought by --- for development purposes.  And the old adage, we're just behind the eight ball at this point.

Q.           Actually, can you tell me as either the chairman or a commissioner of the Public Service District, when did you take office as one of the board members?

A.           In my three and a half years of my six-year tenure, and when was it, Sue --- when did you come?  May? Okay.  So it was the beginning of the year of that.

Q.           So have you had an opportunity to also discuss with Sheridan Development or LLC about what Staff is looking at, its proposal to run a line from the Sheridan development over to the Breckenridge Pump Station?

A.           Yes, that's been discussed.

Q.           Can you expand on that?

A.           I think it would be money ill spent.  I'm not in favor of pumping any of these flows clear up a watershed, sewer shed, if you will, and with all the lift stations and so forth that you go through to what I foresee as a future limited capacity at the Charles Town Wastewater

Treatment Plant.

Q.           And is that the understanding that the route that you understand would be going from the Sheridan development down to the Patrick Henry weigh pump stations and up to the Breckenridge Pump Station?

A.           Well, you want to use up on both of those.  Both of those are upstream.  And yes, that's the route that I understand that they would be considering.  And of course, going to the Breckenridge, that pump station is already at capacity.

Q.           Also, hasn't the District's engineer also looked at possibly running a line from where the Sheridan is located due west, in a westerly direction, to the Breckenridge Pump Station?

A.           I think that's been proposed or at least thought out, but that's --- nothing concrete on doing that.

Q.           So the District has really not pursued a complete investigation of that particular route?

A.           No.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              I object.  I think that's a presumption.

A.           That's not true.

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Well, then can you tell the Commission some of the findings ---?

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Your Honor, we've identified a witness, Will Smith, who can speak extensively to this issue.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              I'll defer to Mr. Smith.

A.           Okay.

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Are you, at this particular time, currently in the process of working with the City of Ranson concerning the Flowing Springs Pump Station?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Can you explain to the Commission what discussions and the reasons for the Flowing Springs Pump Station?

A.           The Flowing Springs Pump Station is to accommodate the large amount of building or EDUs that are being produced upstream from the Breckenridge Pump Station area, up towards the Route Nine bypass, if you will, that's what we still call it, area of our county.  And that, in essence, is being paid, here again, by the developers that are involved in those projects.  Now, that --- pumping from that area into Charles Town is the thing to do for a quick fix of this situation but not for long term.  In my estimation, some year that needs to be turned around and go downhill in the watershed.

Q.           Do you know, with the Flowing Springs Pump Station, when its completed, the construction, of how that would also affect the Breckenridge Pump Station?

A.           We have an agreement with them to provide some flows.  Initially they need --- I can't remember all the figures.  They need X amount of flows so that they don't run into a septic situation before the small, initial flows get to the Charles Town plant.  So we have an agreement in place where we're going to divert flows to them for that purpose.

Q.           And those diversions of flows are from the Breckenridge Pump Station?

A.           Yes.

Q.           So then that will allow additional capacity at the Breckenridge Pump Station?

A.           To some degree.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Thank you, Mr. Kable.  I have no further questions.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              I just have a brief Redirect, if I may.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY KELSH:

Q.           Mr. Kable, the Staff heard me ask you about diversion of flows from the Breckenridge Pump Station to the Flowing Springs transmission line.  Do you see a growth coming --- customer growth coming into the District's upstream of the Breckenridge Pump Station?

A.           Yes.  And I want to go ahead and expound upon that.  Yeah, that is just going to be a very quick-fix situation there at the Breckenridge station --- Breckenridge Pump Station.  But those flows that are going to be relieved there are going to be very quickly replaced and then multiplied in the future.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Thank you.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Excuse me.  I have one or two questions just on Redirect (sic).

RECROSS EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Mr. Kable, looking at that as more of a temporary situation, you were talking, too, about reversing flows.  Where would you within the District reverse the flows to?

A.           Somewhere downstream on the Flowing Springs watershed.

Q.           Would that happen to be at the Old Standard plant that you will be taking over?

A.           Possibly.

Q.           Then does the District have any other plans to build its own plant at this particular time?

A.           We are right on the threshold of making that decision from our recently-presented facility plan study.

Q.           So these reverses of flows could go into the District's plant or possibly, an alternative, it could also go back to the Old Standard plant?

A.           Yes.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Thank you.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              If I may.  I apologize for the

back-and-forth here.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY KELSH:

Q.           Mr. Kable, you testified that you're on the threshold of possibly selecting a treatment plant for the District to build?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Do you have a feel for the timeframe for that process, from you know --- of course, we have to be talking very rough, ballpark figures, but from today, how soon do you expect the District will have a plant underway?

A.           Probably three years minimum.

Q.           Thank you.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              I have no Redirect (sic).

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Thank you.  You may step down.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Your Honor, I'd ask that this witness be permitted to catch his flight at 5:30 today.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Thank you.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              At this particular time, still out of order, but all the parties have agreed that the Staff would like to call Jane Arnett to the stand.

--------------------------------------------------------

JANE ARNETT, HAVING FIRST BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

--------------------------------------------------------

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           For the record, could you please state your name and also your position with the City of Charles Town?

A.           My name is Jane Arnett, A-R-N-E-T-T.  I'm the city manager for the City of Charles Town, also serving as the chairman of the City of Charles Town Utility Board, which operates the water and sewer utility.

Q.           So then you're familiar with right now the current Charles Town upgrade to a sewer plant?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And at this particular time could you tell the Commission --- they have already approved the upgrade and I believe that was in Case Number 04-0095-S-CN.  Could you give the Commission a status update as to your sewer treatment plant upgrade at this time?

A.           The contract has been let for the expansion of the City of Charles Town Wastewater Treatment Plant, with completion anticipated on January 8th.  Substantial penalties will be applied January 9th.  We are also working with the contractor to put in place a large portion of that project that would allow the DEP to consider additional flows coming to the plant sometime in December, optimistically December 1 of this year.

Q.           So from that particular statement, would DEP --- that you would possibly make a request of taking a portion of that approximately 500,000 gallon flows and trying to get some of that released early?

A.           Yes.

Q.           With the --- and you possibly have on the horizon right now also what we would call --- at least the Staff has called a fourth basin project?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And have you --- the City has looked at or are looking at employing an engineer to start a design or looking at a preliminary study of that?

A.           The preliminary design task order is slated for approval this month.  And that project is not a difficult one to design and engineer, so it is possible to get that one moving quickly.  But perhaps --- as Mr. Kable said, it's a minimum of three years to approve any project in Jefferson County.  That's basically the norm.  So any project started today would certainly be, in all likelihood, 24 to 36 months minimum to complete.

Q.           And with that particular project do you know possibly what is the tentative upgrade for that fourth basin as to number of gallons, the flows themselves?

A.           Not being an engineer but having a little bit of understanding of that additional basin, it would be more than 550,000 gallons.  But that's an approximate gallon increase.

Q.           I know Mr. Kable also was talking about being behind the eight ball.  Right now do you think that the City of Charles Town is trying to get in front of the eight ball, is trying to stay ahead of the game and sort of looking at connections for sewer?

A.           How about the nine ball?  I think we're all trying.  Certainly there are tremendous pressures on a small 1.2 MGD wastewater treatment plant to address the needs of the greater City of Charles Town, City of Ranson and Jefferson County area.  The magnitude of the growth and the onset, as rapidly as it has come, has not been easy to address.  Your question of getting in front of the eight ball, but we certainly try our best every day. And we do have plans.  The difficulty is, as I've heard very limited discussion, how do we pay for it, who's going to pay for it, who protects the end rate payer from paying for all this growth.  And I think those are issues that we're trying to face today.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              I want to present a document, and I'll have this identified as Staff Exhibit Number Two.

(Staff Exhibit Number Two marked for identification.)

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           While I'm passing out these other documents, you may just want to read that.

WITNESS COMPLIES

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Have you had an opportunity to refresh your memory with this document?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And can you just identify this document and the purpose it was drafted to Mr. Weimer here at the PSC Staff?

A.           My understanding of the purpose of this letter was to initially support the Staff's proposal to allow flows initially to come from Sheridan into the Breckenridge Pump Station to the Charles Town Wastewater Treatment Plant until such time as there was a sufficient customer base to absorb the building of the Old Standard facility.

Q.           And that would also talk to if District built a plant up in the Flowing Springs area?

A.           I haven't considered that.

Q.           But that's another potential?

A.           That's a potential, yes.

Q.           And this was actually --- this was a letter written by you?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And this would actually --- and it has a date of July 12th, 2005.  This letter was actually sent for the first Commission hearing, is that correct, for the first Old Standard hearing that we had rescheduled?

A.           Yes.

Q.           At this particular time, looking at that potential for a diversion of flows from the Charles Town plant of either going to Old Standard or even going to the District's new plant, what is the city's or your own vision of how that diversion would happen?

 

A.           Certainly in my discussions with PSC Staff it has been understood that it is engineeringly feasible.  I believe it is theoretically possible --- the City of Charles Town, without being a party to this case, has not had the benefit of doing any financial analysis to determine the financial impact on either the capital costs or the operations and maintenance costs at the City of Charles Town Wastewater Treatment Plant.  Having said that, we certainly support Staff's position or the Commission's position with regard to a decision and want to work towards a regional approach to Jefferson County's wastewater needs.  So I think that with the benefit of financial oversight or some financial analysis, that that element, as well as the engineering or the theoretical, would be supported.  And again, certainly, as my responsibilities to bond holders, investment bankers, bond insurers, I would want to make sure that this is financially sound to suddenly cause wastewater to flow into Charles Town and at some point in the future to divert it.  It would just require some financial analysis.  And I would also want to look at the Memorandum of Understanding with regard to wastewater treatment --- sorry, waste --- capital improvement fees as they relate to wastewater.  There is a memorandum of understanding between the District of Charles Town and Ranson, for those fees to be applied to any upgrades at Charles Town, allowing for provisions that the Commission has approved that would divert those fees or credit those fees if, at some future point, those flows would be diverted from Charles Town.  So that would have to be included in the financial analysis. 

Q.           So looking at the financial analysis, if that financial analysis --- what I'll say that it's okay for Charles Town to divert sewage flows, then do you think that it would be more encouraging to do it?

A.           I think that it would be possible, yes.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              At this time could I --- Staff take about a three-minute break or five minutes, if that's okay?

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Let's take a 15-minute break.  Let's be back at quarter to 3:00.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Okay.  Thank you. 

SHORT BREAK TAKEN

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           I'm just going to ask you one question just to get us back on track.  I'm looking at the letter that you have here, the July 12th, 2005 letter, written to Mr. Weimer, here at the Commission.  Basically we're looking at subject to financial calculations and things at a later time, possibly or probably Charles Town would not have a problem of diverting flows from its Charles Town sewage treatment plant.

A.           Well, I think this more specifically says diversion of flows from the Breckenridge Pump Station.

Q.           Okay.  But that is looking at the Breckenridge Pump Station?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           And also expanding on this particular letter, subject to financial calculations, that you, as the city manager, that possibly or probably that the City of Charles Town would not have a problem with diverting sewer flows from --- that's directed --- that's treated by the Charles Town sewer treatment plant and diverting those sewage flows?

A.           Certainly I think that's possible and probable, but subject to financial analysis.

Q.           I believe I have one last question.  Looking at your current upgrade with the treatment plant for the sewer, I'd note there's a couple of complaints.  But if you're able to do that 500,000-gallon upgrade, at least you have the capabilities to also serve this Sheridan development?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Thank you.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Just one question.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Ms. Arnett, where is the current pattern of need in the county, from your perspective as an administrator for Charles Town, in terms of where the growth is currently?

A.           Certainly those developments that have been previously approved both in Charles Town and Ranson are the focus of wastewater needs, wastewater capacity, consumption.  And I guess from a Jefferson County perspective, again, those that have been approved by the Planning Commission would be presumably --- already have been looked at with regard to infrastructure and meeting those infrastructure needs.

Q.           Thank you.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              I have some questions for this witness if Mr. McDonald does not have any.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY KELSH:

Q.           Ms. Arnett, quickly give the Commission an idea of the magnitude of growth in Charles Town.  How many sewer customers do you have now, approximately?

A.           I'm going to say 6,800, plus or minus.  6,600 to 6,800 customers.

Q.           That's counting the District of Ranson as well?

A.           Yes.

Q.           How many does Charles Town have?  How many do you direct bill?

A.           Just a little over 1,500.

Q.           And Charles Town recently annexed a development known as Huntfield; correct?

A.           Correct.

Q.           What's the total build-out of Huntfield in terms of houses?

A.           The planned build-out just with houses is 3,200 homes.

Q.           And those flows are going to the Charles Town plant and will probably do so indefinitely; correct?

A.           Yes, unless other alternatives are sought and approved.

Q.           And we may find ourselves in the position where we need to do that; is that fair to say?

A.           That's true.

Q.           And with respect to the current situation in Huntfield, it's my understanding Charles Town has about 27 taps left to give Huntfield, do you know if that sounds right or not, and then you're at your limit?

A.           I think your ball park is correct.

Q.           And that's until a phase-one upgrade is complete and there's additional capacity available then?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Now, the phase-one upgrade, the upgrade that's going to be completed in January, that does not bring the Charles Town plant into compliance with the Chesapeake Bay standards; does it?

A.           No.

Q.           And the current plant does not comply with Chesapeake Bay; does it?

A.           No.

Q.           Has the Charles Town Sanitary Board agreed to a plan to bring its plant into compliance with Chesapeake Bay standards?

A.           We are reviewing that and have retained an engineer who's produced initial cost estimates on compliance with Chesapeake Bay that are being analyzed now.

Q.           But the sanitary board has not --- the utility board has not agreed to a plan to bring it into compliance?

A.           I wouldn't say that the utility board has not agreed to a plan.  I would say that we we've been provided by the DEP, Division of Environmental Protection, is that we must come into compliance in the year 2010.  So we, on the horizon of the year 2010, look to addressing compliance at that point.

Q.           There's been discussions about a phase-two upgrade to Charles Town to add further volume capacity at the plant beyond the 500,000 gallons that's going to be added this January.  Has the timeframe of that been established by the utility board, meaning with that upgrade does the utility board obligate itself to also bring the plant into compliance with Chesapeake Bay standards?

A.           Not as we understand our initial discussions with the Division of Environmental Protection.

Q.           So the phase-two upgrade, that may not bring your plant into compliance with the Chesapeake Bay standards?

A.           If that is the --- we will comply with the permit requirements at the time that we file for a permit for any future expansions.  If, at the time, the permit requires Chesapeake Bay compliance, we will invoke that in the action taken by the utility board to comply with its permit issuance.  Whether that's the 2007, 2009, 2011, we fully intend to comply once those are imposed by NPDES permit.

Q.           Okay.  You'll comply with the law, whatever it is, when the time comes ---

A.           Correct.

Q.           --- to expand?  But there's a possibility, is there not, that you might be able to do the phase-two expansion without bringing your plant into compliance with the Chesapeake Bay standards?

A.           That's a possibility, yes.

Q.           Your phase-one project was financed through a rather complex mechanism.  Can you explain that mechanism?

A.           The elements that make up the project financing include the capital improvement fee of $1,127 per connection per equivalent dwelling unit.  There's also a provision that any new customer that comes on, a portion of their bill, in the amount of $6.10, will be sent, if you will, to pay the bond issue debt service.  A third element was a letter of credit that was required to be in place for $700,000 to ensure the payment of this debt.  And I'm sure there's one other one, but I can't remember what it is. 

Q.           I think if all else fails, the utilities will be on the hook.

A.           If all else fails, we increase rates.  And let's hope that doesn't happen.

Q.           And your last comment brings me to the point I was hoping to make.  This mechanism was established to insulate existing ratepayers from the cost of this expansion; correct?

A.           That's correct.

Q.           With the idea that this expansion was caused by new customers, new growth, and they should pay for it; is that fair to say?

A.           Fair to say.

Q.           Looking at the phase two upgrades, do you expect that Charles Town will look for a similar mechanism to pay for that cost?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Okay.  And then bringing that into Chesapeake Bay compliance, again, you're going to look for a similar mechanism that will insulate existing ratepayers?

A.           We are not sure, at this time, whether we can insulate existing ratepayers 100 percent, but to the best of our ability, we want or would like to be able to work cooperatively with the new growth to at least share in a large portion of that compliance.

Q.           Okay.  You've started plans for this phase two expansion, or you're starting to look at phase two expansion to add more volumetric capacity; correct?

A.           Correct.  Well, we're approving the first engineering studies to --- it is as Staff --- PSC Staff referred to as the fourth basin.  So phase two and the fourth basin are sort of the same project.  And we hope to get moving on that shortly.

Q.           Your engineering firm is preparing what's called a preliminary engineering report or facility plan?

A.           Correct.

Q.           Okay.  And you have this Huntfield --- large Huntfield development and you have other large developments in the vicinity; correct?

A.           Correct.

Q.           You don’t see any difficulty in selling wastewater services in Jefferson County; do you?

A.           No, it's just how to pay for them and get them approved.Q.       Okay.  If the District is able to obtain this Old Standard Wastewater Treatment Plant, is the phase two upgrade going to be reduced by 50,000 gallons?

A.           No.

Q.           Okay.  Charles Town treats wastewater from the District's collection system.  And the District has these lines that are a fair distance from the plant; isn't that fair to say?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Does Charles Town encounter any problems in treating this wastewater that's had to go through numerous pump stations and the like?

A.           Yes.

Q.           What's the problem you encounter?

A.           From a non-engineering perspective and a non-operations perspective, the bottom line is we treat high BOD because of the length of the line and the time that it is in the line.

Q.           Okay.  Is it fair to say it's not good for wastewater to spend a whole lot of time in pump stations and transmission lines?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And that causes it --- harder to treat when it gets to the plant?

A.           Correct.

Q.           In response to the Staff Attorney's question, you said that once the phase one upgrades are complete, that you would have the capacity to serve the Sheridan development.  Do you recall that testimony?

A.           Yes.

Q.           How much capacity is the phase one upgrade going to add?A.  Approximately 550,000 gallons.

Q.           And how is that going to be split among the three utilities that send flows into that plant?

A.           One-third, one-third, one-third.

Q.           Okay.  And so the District has approximately 180,000 gallons to work with?

A.           Correct.

Q.           Do you know if the District has a waiting list or not?

A.           Yes.

Q.           It has a waiting list?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Do you know if Sheridan is on that waiting list or not?

A.           I don't know.

Q.           Is it possible that Sheridan may be too far down the waiting list so that it doesn't qualify to get in the Charles Town Wastewater Treatment Plant gate?

A.           That may be possible.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Thank you.  That's all I have.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Good afternoon, Ms. Arnett.

A.           Good afternoon.

Q.           Charles Town is not a party to this case; is it?

A.           No.Q.     And you're here --- how is it that you're here?

A.           By subpoena from the Public Service Commission Staff.

Q.           Staff subpoenaed you to come here?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Did they tell you what they wanted you to testify to when you were here?

A.           We have had discussions about whether Charles Town could provide service to Sheridan and whether there would be an objection to initially taking the flows from Sheridan until such time, as I've said before, there is a sufficient customer base to cover the debt service.  I'm sorry.  To cover the operations of the Old Standard facility.

Q.           I don't understand that last part.  What do you mean?  What do you mean take the flows from Sheridan?  Say that a different way, would you?

A.           I'll say it a different way by the exhibit that's been introduced.  Charles Town would not object to future flows from the Breckenridge Pump Station or the Flowing Springs area being diverted to a new facility.

Q.           Did they ask you to say that?

A.           We had a discussion about Charles Town agreeing to that.  They didn't ask me to say that it was --- that we agreed that was possible.

Q.           Does that statement assume that Charles Town owns the flow and can either object or not object?

A.           No.

Q.           Do you think you own the flow from JCPSD?A.          No.

Q.           So whether you object or not is of little moment; would you agree with me?

A.           As it pertains to the City of Charles Town Wastewater Treatment Plant and its ability to operate as an efficient utility, I am here on their behalf, on Charles Town's behalf.

Q.           And you're treating the 1,200,000 gallons a day now?

A.           Just under.

Q.           Is there any agreement between Charles Town and the District that the District has to send all of its flow to Charles Town?

A.           There are financial agreements that have been approved by the Commission that, as again, I've testified, would need to be reviewed as it pertains to this case.

Q.           What kind of agreements are those?

A.           Those that relate to the financing of the expansion, this current expansion of the plant, those that relate to the Public Service District's case with regard to the setting of the $1,127 capacity improvement fee.

Q.           Well, let me understand.  Do you believe the District's under an obligation to continue to send all of its flow to Charles Town?

A.           No.  My testimony with regard to this issue deals with the Charles Town Wastewater Treatment Plant and agreements that the three utilities have in existence today.

Q.           Subject to compliance with existing agreements, the JCPSD can send its flow wherever it decides to send it; can it not?A.     Yes.

Q.           I'm going to hand you a document and ask you to study it for a moment.  Then I want to ask you some questions about that.

A.           Okay.

Q.           Do you recognize that document?

A.           Yes.

Q.           That is a response of the City of Charles Town to a Final Staff Recommendation in Charles Town, Case Number 04-0095; correct?

A.           Correct.

Q.           Have you seen that document before today?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Among other things, that document discusses Charles Town's future construction plans; does it not?

A.           Yes.

Q.           I ask you to read into the record a paragraph number four.

A.           In the issues set forth in paragraph 2(b) above, Charles Town knows that it needs to file an Application for a Certificate of Convenience for a further expansion of the wastewater plant.  Charles Town is in the process of acquiring real estate adjacent to the existing plant, upon which the expansion will be constructed.  However, several events have recently occurred, which have caused Charles Town to temporarily pause in proceeding with the design of the next expansion. 

Q.           This document was written about 90 days ago; correct?  May 2nd?

A.           Uh-huh (yes).Q.   All right.  And then following that, the writer goes on, your attorney, goes on to explain what some of those factors are that have caused you to pause in planning; correct?

A.           Correct.

Q.           Turn the page, if you would.  And read the sentences that I have highlighted in yellow.

A.           Charles Town believes that it is in the best interests of all parties to be affected by the Chesapeake Bay Initiative to wait until the Maryland Discharge Limitations are issued so that those standards can be incorporated into any further expansion of the treatment plant.  Charles Town believes that it, Ranson, and the JCPSD need some additional time to assess the impact of Senate Bill 700 upon the rate of growth of future flows to the Charles Town Plant.

Q.           Thank you.  So 90 days ago, Charles Town, your town, wrote the PSC and said, we're going to pause in our planning for the fourth basin upgrade; correct?  For two reasons; correct?

A.           Correct.

Q.           And one of those is that, at least according to this document, that Charles Town believes it's in the best interests of everybody to wait until the Chesapeake Bay initiative limitations are issued, so that those standards can be incorporated into the new plan, and secondly, you said Charles Town believes that it needs to study the impact of Senate Bill 700 on future flows into the Wastewater Treatment Plant of Charles Town?

A.           Yes.Q.    Correct?

A.           Correct.

Q.           Has anything changed in the last 90 days to cause these statements to the Commission to no longer be accurate or complete?

A.           I believe they were accurate at the time.  We have had, since May, discussions with the DEP, specifically with regard to how we are going to address Chesapeake Bay.  There have been Chesapeake Bay strategy meetings that I've not attended, but the superintendent of the Wastewater Treatment Plant has intended on going.

That has led us to be able today to say that we need to be seeking wasteload allocations and permitting throughout this process of learning what the Chesapeake Bay criteria will be for the State of West Virginia.  So lots has changed --- a lot has changed in 90 days, I would say, from those statements.

Q.           Well, I didn't understand what you just said to amount to a lot has changed.  In other words, you're still studying the Chesapeake Bay issue.  Is that --- did you say more than that?

A.           What at the time, in May, we were under the impression we'd be --- the criteria that would be issued upon the next NPDES permit for the Charles Town Wastewater Treatment plant is not so today.  That we have an understanding that could change today in the testimony.  It really depends.  I think the Chesapeake Bay strategy is evolving.  We are today understanding from the DEP that we can file for the next wasteload allocation and apply for the next NPDES permit under standards that are less restrictive than will be in the future.  Now, again, that's as of this moment.  It could change.  But that's how we're proceeding today.

Q.           And West Virginia really doesn't have a set of discharge limitations designed to comply with the phosphorus and nitrogen removal pieces of the Chesapeake Bay Initiative, we don't have that in place; is that correct?

A.           Right.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Thank you.  No further questions. 

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Yes, I have a few questions on Redirect. 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Ms. Arnett, looking at the three utilities with the sewer upgrade, current sewer upgrade at Charles Town, there was here talk, you informed the District's Counsel that there was a one-third provision, like one-third, one-third, one-third.  And that was for each of the sewer utilities?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And then from there, with like Charles Town's allocation, from there, what is then the principle that Charles Town uses to hook up for sewer service?

A.           First come, first serve.

Q.           Okay.  And so it is somewhat of an allocation first, but then you will have a first come, first serve basis?A. Yes.

Q.           With the first basin project, looking at Mr. McDonald's questions, looking at the fourth basin project, is it --- is the City's sewer department, the utility board, could look at that and become Chesapeake Bay compliant?  I'm looking at that looking from the engineer's perspective.

A.           We have obtained an engineering analysis on three alternative methods for treating the entire Charles Town wastewater treatment plant to meet the Chesapeake Bay standards.  And that analysis has been completed and rough estimates today are that the lowest cost to meet those criteria for the entire plant, it cannot be looked at as one project meeting it and three-fourths of the plant not, or 60 percent meeting and 40 percent not.  We have done the analysis for the overall plant to bring it into compliance at such time as those criteria are set and placed in an NPDES permit that the City of Charles Town would obtain.

Q.           All right.  So in order to --- for the Charles Town Sewer Treatment Plant to become totally Chesapeake Bay Compliant, that's going to affect both the current customers of the City of Charles Town; correct?

A.           Correct.

Q.           Then also with the developers, it would affect the future customers that would be connecting with all of these developments that put houses on to tie in to the sewage to come to Charles Town for treatment?

A.           Correct.

Q.           Then by the City of Charles Town, at whatever future time, meeting Chesapeake Bay requirement, meeting those standards, then that will also benefit the City of Ranson, because they send the sewage from Ranson to the Charles Town Treatment Plant?

A.           I'm not sure I understand benefit Ranson.  I think that the goal ---.

Q.           What I mean, Ranson's not going to have any Chesapeake Bay requirements to meet because it sends its sewage to Charles Town.

A.           That's correct.

Q.           The same thing currently with the Jefferson County Public Service District, that they would not have to be looking at the current situation that sends the sewage to Charles Town, it's just Charles Town that has to meet Chesapeake Bay requirements because you are the discharge point?

A.           Correct.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Thank you, Ms. Arnett.  I have no further questions.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              No further questions. 

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Thank you.  You may be excused.

A.           Thank you. 

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              Mr. Chairman, I'd like --- if you don't mind?

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Please.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              Ms. Arnett, help me out here just a little bit. 

A.           Okay.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              Phase one, as I understand it, will be completed January the 8th of next year.

A.           Correct.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              Is that correct?

A.           Yes.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              And can then handle the Sheridan Estate project?

A.           Yes.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              But you will not be in compliance with the standards of Chesapeake?

A.           Correct, nor are we required to at the District.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              Oh, I know that.  I'm not on your case.

I'm just trying to make sure I understand.  Okay.  Then phase two of your expansion program, when is the projected date that that will take place?

A.           The minimum, or earliest that could be achieved would be 30 --- I would say 30 months to possibly, depending on appeals, 48 months.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              So three to four years is what you're saying?

A.           Right.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              And did I understand you to say that you all probably will not be in compliance with the Chesapeake Bay standards until the year 2010?

A.           That is my understanding of when our first MPDS permit would require compliance.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              Yes, ma'am.  And you don't know when you're going to implement those standards; correct?

A.           No, but certainly the City of Charles Town Utility Board will be poised and ready to comply at the moment that we would be mandated to do so.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              Now, on Charles Town, I'm just trying to get this thing in sequence. 

A.           Thank you.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              Okay.  Thank you very much.

A.           Uh-huh (yes).

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              At this time, too, Ms. Arnett, there's no other questions from the Commission.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              I'm sorry.  I didn't understand the question and the answer to the question you just asked. So I'm going to back up.  My understanding is you answered the question that phase one will be in January, and that it could accept the Sheridan wastewater?

A.           Yes.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              The Sheridan wastewater, that's only if they're first in line or does that --- or are you assuming that that's carte blanche, that you were granting that?

A.           There will be capacity available at the Charles Town wastewater treatment plant for any connection at January 6th.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Okay.  And are there other people needing ---?

A.           Many, many, many others.  The hesitation is that the City of Charles Town, although it is treating the wastewater, is not the utility provider for Sheridan.  So it is my hesitation that I am not the Jefferson County Public Service District, who they would be applying to for service.  Although my statement is that the wastewater treatment plant with this next expansion would have the capacity available.  It's the --- the complexity and difficulty here is three utilities tying into one facility.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Thank you.  Go ahead, Mr. Robertson.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Well, I have a question or two before Redirect, if Mr. Robertson agrees.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Sure.  That's not a problem. 

RECROSS EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Jane, how does Charles Town now currently handle requests for service from --- well, let me back up.  Do you maintain that whatever excess capacity is available at the Charles Town Wastewater Treatment Plant now is, or at one time, was divided among Charles Town, Ranson and JCPSD?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And there was testimony earlier that in March 2004 it was determined that so much excess capacity existed at that time.  What was that number?

A.           Mr. Robertson roughly calculated it as 150,000 gallons, but I think in the settlement of that case, it was defined more in the range of 108,000 or 109,000 remaining.  Gallons, that is.

Q.           180,000 or 190,000 gallons ---

A.           108,000.

Q.           --- per day?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And then he went on to say that that was divided up among Charles Town PSD and Ranson?

A.           Yes.Q.    He said 240 or 220.  That doesn't sound right; does it?

A.           Oh, that was EDUs.

Q.           EDUs?

A.           EDUs.

Q.           Okay.  EDU is an equivalent dwelling unit?

A.           Yes.

Q.           With respect to Charles Town's allocation of EDUs, how does it --- how does it allocate those out to people that come to you for service?

A.           Until he settlement of the remaining 108,000 gallons, there really were no customers asking Charles Town Sewer Department for connection.  And that was as a result of the 1988 Sewer Service Agreement, whereby Charles Town really didn't have new customers.  Those new customers were directed to the Jefferson County Public Service District, under that agreement.

Q.           But that all changed, didn't it?  Because now you run the plant, you have a wholesale rate, you charge JCPSD, you charge Ranson, and except for this allocation, you control hookups; right?

A.           No.

Q.           Where is that wrong?

A.           That is wrong in this case that's referenced for --- I'm sorry.  It's the certificate case for this expansion, phase one expansion, where the Public Service Commission approved, again, an amendment to the sewer service agreement that allocated this 500,000 to 550,000 gallons on a one-third, one-third, one-third basis.  So that's this next expansion.  Beyond that ---.

Q.           That's the next one?

A.           That's this current phase one.

Q.           Yes.  Is that case final?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Okay.  One-third, one-third, one-third?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Phase one?

A.           Yes.

Q.           So how does Charles Town allocate its one-third to customers who want sewer service?

A.           First come, first serve.

Q.           Have you used up all your allocation?

A.           Of the settlement agreement, for the 108,000 remaining, 108,000 gallons remaining, yes. 

Q.           Okay.  So as far as Charles Town's concerned, it has no more capacity for its customers, new folks?

A.           That's correct.  Not until January 8th, 2006.

Q.           What happens then?

A.           January 8th, 2006, we move into this newest capacity that is allocated one-third, one-third, one-third. 

Q.           I see.  And you have people waiting in line to get capacity in January of '06?

A.           Yes.Q.    And you're going to treat those on a first-come/ first-serve basis as well?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And to get in line, to get first come, what would I have to do if I were an applicant?  What would I have to have completed to stand at your door and say, I'm ready to make my application?

A.           A building permit.

Q.           Okay.  But which comes first?  The building permit or the sewer availability letter?

A.           Well, are you talking about the City of Charles Town's one third only?

Q.           Well, let's talk about it.  I don't know what I'm talking about.  Let's talk about Charles Town.  Let's talk about Charles Town's one third, January 6th, 2006.  You've got some additional capacity and you've got a lot of people waiting in line.

A.           Building permit.

Q.           They've got a building permit?

A.           Yes.

Q.           So that they get a building permit without a sewer availability letter, then?

A.           Those customers are within the purview of the City of Charles Town's operations, its planning and zoning department.  We're knowledgeable about what capacity exists, what's been approved.  And unlike the County, where there are various agencies that are issuing a sewer availability letter or issuing a final plat approval or --- it's a little consolidated.

Q.           Oh, you have your own building permit department?

A.           Yes.

Q.           You don't use the county's?

A.           Correct.

Q.           Ah.  Well, can you tell us today how long you anticipate it will be after January 6th, 2006 before Charles Town's available allocation of the phase one upgrade is exhausted?

A.           No, I can't tell you that today.

Q.           Okay.

A.           Quickly.

Q.           But you have a way?

A.           Yes.  I would say. 

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Thank you, Ms. Arnett.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Thank you.  Your Honor, if Ms. Arnett can stay, I have a couple of Redirect questions, if that's okay.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Ms. Arnett, I'm looking at, first of all, the certificate upgrade was in 04-0095-S-CN; is that correct?

A.           Yes.

Q.           And that is --- and that has been a final, approved Commission order; correct?

A.           Correct.

Q.           And this is where we get into that one-third, one-third, one-third of the allocation of capacity either of the 500,000 gallons or the 550,000 gallons of capacity for this upgrade; is that correct?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Then, looking at that, talking about your first come --- first come, first serve basis, people that are on the waiting list, the first person on that waiting list, if they don't have a building permit and are able to take service --- to take sewer service, do they move down because they're not ready to take sewer service?

A.           That issue hasn't come up within the City of Charles Town's allocation.  The developers within the city limits that are City of Charles Town customers are poised and ready to have their building permits issued upon receipt of this capacity.

Q.           Right.  So even if a developer has 35 lots and he is going to build two houses, will the City only issue out two sewer taps or will it send out 35 sewer taps?

A.           Two.

Q.           Two.  So that is more in relation to a first come, first serve basis, based upon the need to have sewer somewhat more in an immediate fashion?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Looking at the agreement that was filed in the certificate case, is it your understanding that with the allocation amongst the utilities that the City of Ranson and also the District is also applying this on a first come, first serve basis after that allocation?

A.           I don't recall specifically, but I would say yes.

Q.           Well, I will ask them directly. 

A.           Okay. 

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Thank you, Ms. Arnett.  I have no further questions.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Did you want to ask this witness to be excused?

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              At this time, if there are no other questions from the other Counsels or the Intervenor party, yes, we'd like to ask Jane Arnett also to be excused.

A.           Thank you.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Thank you.  Now, it's back to you.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Thank you, Your Honor.  I'll call Vince Ammirato. 

--------------------------------------------------------

VINCE AMMIRATO, HAVING FIRST BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

--------------------------------------------------------

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Would you state your name and business address?

A.           My name is Vince Ammirato.  Business address is 7012 MacCorkle Avenue, Charleston, West Virginia.Q.               By whom are you employed?

A.           Testing Associates.

Q.           What is your capacity?

A.           Senior engineer.

Q.           Briefly state your qualifications.

A.           I have a degree in civil engineering and 31 years of experience in engineering.

Q.           Do you have responsibility with respect to the Old Standard Wastewater Treatment Plant?

A.           Well, with the facility, our scope of work was for the transmission line from the Sheridan development to the wastewater treatment, the pretreatment facilities in front of the wastewater treatment plant and the design of the effluent line from the wastewater treatment plant to the receiving stream of the Potomac River as well as some permitting issues, the NPDES permit, the Health Department permit, other permits such as crossing the railroad and highway.

Q.           Now, just very briefly, without --- trying not to repeat testimony that you've already heard today, describe the wastewater treatment project, that is to say from the proposed Sheridan Subdivision to the river.

A.           Well, the sewage is already being collected.  That design was done for the collection of the sewage within the Sheridan development.  Our scope of work begins at the first pump station outside the Sheridan development.  There's approximately 7,000 feet of forced main.  It's a six-inch.  You kind of go upgrade and then it goes to approximately 4,000 feet of 12-inch gravity. It goes up Route 340, crosses 340 and goes down County Road 27, where the gravity line enters the property of the Old Standard quarry site.  The gravity main crosses there.  And where we have the wastewater treatment plant, which we discussed already, constructed there. 

               Our scope of work was the pretreatment.  That's the lift station, the screening, an EQ basin and we lifted ---.

Q.           The what basin?

A.           The equalization basin as to the flow.  You know, the flow is not steady throughout the day.  We have to --- you can essentially store so much liquid during the day so we can maintain a constant flow to the wastewater treatment plant.

Q.           I see.  Your firm participated in the design of these equalization ---?

A.           It's essentially a surge tank to handle the --- because, you know, you'll get big flows in the morning when everybody gets up, and you have another little peak later in the day, around dinnertime.  And these EQ basins sort of dampen that flow out.

Q.           I see.  And your firm also designed the effluent line from the plant or ---?

A.           The effluent line takes the discharge from the wastewater treatment plant across the Old Standard quarry site, under the CSX railroad and discharges it into the Potomac River.

Q.           And has your firm obtained Health Department and DEP permits for this project?A.         Yes.  We submitted them and they've been approved, both through the Health Department and the DEP NPDES permit. 

Q.           And you understand the DEP --- the NPDES permit is on appeal to the West Virginia EQB, Environmental Quality Board, do you not?

A.           That's my understanding.

Q.           That hearing is next month.  What's the size of the wastewater treatment plant and its expandability?

A.           The plant is essentially designed for 125,000 gallons per day.  But the initial startup of the plant will only have enough of these MBR --- these membrane basins to handle 50,000 gallons a day.  The basins we constructed to be empty, initially.  And as the plant --- as the wasteload picks up, they will install additional, essentially cassettes of these membrane units.  So right now there's like two basins and each basin will have two of these cassettes in it, and that will give you 50,000, and then the rest will be filled up will give you ten and that will get you up to the 125,000. 

               So the initial plant will be designed for 125,000, all the pumps, the piping, the blowers, the controls will be sized for that. They just won't have --- the thing they won't have is all of the membrane basins. But they will just be plugged in as the need is developed.

Q.           I see.  Is it fair to say that the planning of the sizing of the plant was to accommodate the Sheridan Subdivision and some additional growth?

A.           Yes.Q.    Okay.  Does the facility have a wasteload allocation?  And explain what that is and what its amount is.

A.           The wasteload allocation is an allocation that the West Virginia PE grants that indicates how much the receiving stream can assimilate the load from the wastewater treatment plant.  It's the capability of the stream to accept this wasteload and not have significant deterioration of the receiving stream.  Right now, the Old Standard plant has a wasteload allocation for up to 250,000 gallons a day.

Q.           But no expansion of the present plant would be that big.  It'd have to --- what would you have to do to have a 250,000 gallon a day plant here?

A.           You'd essentially have to build an identical plant next to it.  Because, you know, the plant is --- has an designed capacity of --- has a potential designed capacity of 125,000.  If you need 250,000, you need another --- essentially another identical plant or another train to it to do that 250,000.

Q.           Would you have to get another NPDES permit

for ---?

A.           We'd have to reapply for a modification.

Q.           Okay.  And have you --- is it your understanding the plant is designed to be in compliance with all existing discharge limitations?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Do you want to say anything about the effluent water quality?

A.           Well, the effluent quality is, again, we work with the --- before we had testified about with Enviroquip.  We work with them to be sure that that plant is capable of meeting those limits that are established in the NPDES permit.

Q.           Okay.  You're confident that the plant and the entire system is designed to meet all existing regulatory requirements?

A.           Yeah, because we're not the designer of the plant, but you know, we have done essentially a review of it and feel confident that it has that potential to meet it, yes.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              All right.  Thank you.  No further Direct questions. 

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              I'm just going to ask one housekeeping matter, if that's okay.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Sure.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              I do not remember this witness being sworn in.  Can we check if he was has sworn for testimony?

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              He was sworn in.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              He was sworn in.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Okay.  Thank you. 

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY KELSH:

Q.           Mr. Ammirato, I'm Jim Kelsh representing the Jefferson County Public Service District.  The transmission system which you have designed is designed to serve the Sheridan Subdivision, which initially had zero homes and is expected to add about 60 homes every year for a three-year period.  Did you see any uncommon or particularly difficult problems resolved during the first months or years of operation, when there's low flow going through this transmission system?

A.           I wouldn't say they're uncommon.  I'd say they're fairly common problems as a new development.  As I stated before, the beginning of a transmission line is a forced main.  And the second part of it is a gravity main.  So as far as the transmission line, there could be --- there's a concern that there's so few houses coming on, it's a forced main, that pump is not going to be --- the lift station, the pump, is going to have a very, very low cycle time.  So our concern is that sewage will lay in the forced main section of the transmission line for an extended period, maybe a period that would be long enough that you could --- that might have to go septic, at least in the initial phase of construction, because the cycle time of the pump is so low.  So we are evaluating ways to increase the dissolved oxygen in that line, either mechanically or chemically.  And we're working with Enviroquip to be sure that their plant can accept whatever method we use to do that.

Q.           That's a problem that can be solved without too great a difficulty?

A.           Yeah.  I don't see which is most efficient or the effective way of doing it, mechanically or chemically, and be sure we're working with the manufacturer, that he doesn't have a problem with what we propose.  And we had some preliminary discussions with him on that.

Q.           In Mr. Faulkner's opening statement, he indicated that the transmission system couldn't run properly until there are about 1,200 customers on this system.  Does that comport with your design of this facility, your understanding of how this facility would work?

A.           I don't understand the basis for his statement. I mean, it's going to pump sewage.

Q.           And you have --- it can run nice on less than 1,200 customers ---?

A.           It can run nice with one customer.  Again, you have to be concerned, is the --- being this first portion is forced main, that consideration that we need to consider in the design.  Now that we know that the buildup of the plant is there, we need to incorporate that into the design.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              Thank you.  That's all I have.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Mr. Ammirato, let me bring something up to you. Are you familiar with this document dated February 4th, 2004?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Were you involved with development of this document?

A.           Partially, yes.

Q.           Would you then read two highlighted areas, one on page 14 and one on page 16, for the record?

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Now, what document are you talking about?

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              The document was an official filing with the West Virginia Bureau of Public Health from Protesta relating to their pipeline and the construction as part of their application package.

BY MR. FAULKNER:

Q.           Just if you could read that, please.

A.           Section 16, earth work description.  The work to be formed under this section shall be in accordance with the drawings and as specified herein, the terms for earth work used in the remainder of this section apply.  Unclassified excavation in the native material, soil, rock, the work under this section shall include but is not necessarily limited to the following.  Excavation for erosion and sediment control.  Excavation for sewer line excavation.  Final grading, shaping and contouring any temporary access roads.

Q.           And then if you could turn to the page 16 as marked and read that into the record, please?

A.           Okay.  Section 16-5, blasting.  The contractor may perform blasting activities as described by this section.  Areas that require excavation, which cannot be excavated using conventional excavation equipment, contractors shall comply with all applicable rules and regulations by federal, state and local jurisdiction when blasting is performed.  The contractor shall notify the owner in writing at least 14 days prior to the beginning of the excavation operation.  The contractor shall be responsible for all damages caused resulting from his blasting activity. 

Q.           Thank you.  How deep do you think the excavations will go for the plant itself?  Let's start with that.

A.           The plant itself.  The wastewater treatment plant?

Q.           Yes.

A.           Depending on the --- I'm trying to remember.  The basins will probably be, I think, eight or ten feet.

Q.           And then how deep will the pipes be?

A.           The sewage line collection lines?

Q.           I'm sure they'll be a range, but a range ---.

A.           Yes.  The forced main is like 36 inches and the gravity main, in some places, again, is a range from three feet to --- I guess from the drawings, it may be six to eight feet.

Q.           I just have a few more questions.  I just need to refer to my notes.  If the plant malfunctions, how will the operators know?

A.           Well, it depends on what malfunction.  I mean, there is a PLC control.

Q.           Well, I mean, if there's a leak from the plant.

A.           There's a PLC control and that would report if any of the pumps fail or if, you know, a sensor goes out, those will all be reported.  And they can be --- you know, that can go up to alarm.  It can go back to wherever --- where you want to send it to.  It could be to somebody's home, somebody's office.  Those can be all telemetered back to the location that the operator chooses.

Q.           And what about the monitoring of the pipe itself from the --- from Sheridan to the three --- to the pumping stations at ---?

A.           The pipe is a conventional sewage line, any sewage line.  There's no special monitoring.  It's conventional sewage line that any sewage line has.

Q.           So if a leak occurred, would anyone know?

A.           It would depend on the type of leak.  Yeah, you would see some change in the plant operation, depending on the type of failure of the pipeline.  If it was a break that caused material to come into the pipe, the plant would pick that up.  You would see more sedimentation, you'd see --- you know, there'd be limits in the plant that would be upset.

Q.           And if there was a break in the pipe where things were seeping out from the pipe?

A.           No.  You'd see the plant --- you would not --- you would see your normal flows would not be occurring.  And you know, you know what your daily flows are and they'd be downhill.

Q.           Have you obtained all the appropriate

right-of-ways for laying the pipe across all of the land involved?

A.           Yes.  We've sent to most --- the majority of the pipeline is along the right-of-way for Route 340 and the County Road 27.  And then the rest of the gravity main is along, you know, the Old Standard quarry.  We also have permits to cross the railroad for the discharge line.Q.          So you're saying that the pipe is --- as is currently planned, is totally within the highway

rights-of-way?

A.           No, except for the one portion that crosses

the ---.

Q.           Okay.  But once the --- before it reaches Old Standard, it's all within the highway right-of-way?

A.           Yes.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Okay.  No further questions.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Good afternoon.

A.           Good afternoon.

Q.           Just a couple of questions.  Looking at the wastewater treatment plant itself, looking at the power costs, were you the engineer, or it possibly was the Enviroquip engineer that actually provided the number for Staff as a $40,000 electrical cost?

A.           It'd be a combination.  Enviroquip provided the electric costs for their portion of the pumps, the blowers.  I added some smaller amounts for lighting, heating, the pump --- the lift station.  So they probably provided 80 to 90 percent of the costs and I just had some essentially ancillary costs.

Q.           So you're in contact with the engineer, Enviroquip, to eventually come to this $40,000 amount?A.               Yes.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Is that $40,000 a year?

A.           That I don't recall.  I'm sorry.  I didn't bring that with me.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              Looking at that, looking at for the treatment costs, at least it's Staff's understanding that that was at $40,000 a year. 

BY ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

Q.           Now, looking at the particular collection lines, and I may have misunderstood the --- your information, that the 125,000-gallon treatment plant, the collection lines, the forced mains were designed to meet that particular flows?

A.           No.  They can flow in excess of 250,000.

Q.           Okay.  So everything, even though we have the one structure of the treatment plant that's only rated at 125,000 gallons a day, this was designed, I know it's expandable up to 250,000, according to the Health Department permit.  So then you designed the collection lines, the forced mains to handle the maximum --- at least a maximum of 250,000 gallons?

A.           Yes, it will handle --- yes.

Q.           Then the other thing, if you can testify to this, then it would have to be required, if you're going from 125,000 to go up to eventually 250,000, it would actually take another physical structure from Enviroquip, another structure and building to be placed on the Old Standard property?A.          Yes.

Q.           All right.  With particular --- I guess that Old Standard is using and is going to be conveying some of the right-of-ways on their property?

A.           Yes.  They'd have to provide an easement for the sewer line across their property, as well as the plant itself.

Q.           Right.  And with where the collection lines leave from Route 27, going down to the Old Standard treatment plant, did you have any conversations with the DEP concerning if there was --- where the transmissions lines may be in a contaminated area?

A.           No.

Q.           Do you know if all the transmission lines or the collection lines on the Old Standard property to the treatment plant, if that has any contaminations as to where construction would effect?

A.           No.  That would have to be --- it would have to be a groundfill site and would have to be cleared.  But I don't have that information.

Q.           Okay.  So you do not know that the location of these collection sewer lines on the Old Standard property, if they're in a contaminated area or not, you just don't know?

A.           That's correct.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Any Redirect?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              No further questions from me, Your Honor.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Thank you.

                              ATTORNEY KELSH:

                              No further questions.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              No further questions.

                              ATTORNEY ROBERTSON:

                              No further questions.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              You may be excused. 

A.           Thank you.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              May this witness be excused?

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Yes.

OFF RECORD DISCUSSION

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, I call Mr. Lee Snyder.

--------------------------------------------------------BERNARD LEE SNYDER, HAVING FIRST BEEN DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

--------------------------------------------------------

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Would you state your name and business address, please, sir?

A.           My name is Bernard Lee Snyder.  My business address is 270 Industrial Boulevard, Kearneysville, West Virginia.

Q.           Is that in Jefferson County?

A.           Yes.

Q.           Where do you live?

A.           I live just outside of Charles Town on Lee Town Road in a development called Lone Oak.

Q.           So you live and work in Jefferson County?

A.           Yes.  I've lived there all my life.

Q.           What's your primary business?

A.           Snyder Environmental Services is the company that is my primary employer.  And I own that company and we're a utility contracting company.  We started out in 1979 in that company building package wastewater treatment plants, sewer lines, water treatment facilities and similar jobs and expanded somewhat since then into more grading work as well.  So we do subdivisions and site improvement jobs and a lot of horizontal boring and jacking and tunneling underground.

Q.           Would you say Snyder Environmental is one of the larger utility construction companies in the county, if not the tri-state?

A.           Yes.  Clearly, there are about two or three of us doing similar volume work in that field in the Eastern Panhandle.

Q.           Mr. Snyder, do you have experience in connection with the construction business in estimating the costs of performing jobs?

A.           Oh, yes.  We do in the neighborhood of $6 to $7 million worth of work a year, and I've always been active in pricing that work.  And there are basically myself and three others that work in the company that do the project management and pricing.Q. Do you have any experience in the regulated utility business?

A.           Well, yes.  Back in 1997, we started in the utility business by buying Walnut Grove Utilities and certificated that.  Or not certificated, but gained the Commission's approval to purchase it and operate it and a number of other water systems in Jefferson County as Jefferson Utilities.  And we have approximately 1,900 water customers in Jefferson County.

Q.           And generally, explain to the Commission the areas of Jefferson County where Jefferson Utilities provides water service.

A.           Well, when we purchased Walnut Grove, it was in rather dire straits.  But we had --- it was put into receivership by a Commission Order in 1993.  Snyder Environmental went to work for the Homeowner's Association, which would have been named the receiver.  And we were a partner and worked well with them.  We found it to be a rewarding experience.  They were very dedicated people trying to improve their community they lived in.  So we've --- from that Association, they supported our purchase of the system. 

               We sought to improve that system.  And we saw the way out of its dire straights was to expand it, because it had adequate water capacity and it had reasonable sized mains, but it didn't have a storage tank.  It didn't have dependability.  It had a myriad of problems with leaks.  So we began to improve those problems one at a time.  We were lucky enough to gain financing, which had a very advantageous arrangement with the West Virginia Housing Development Fund.  We built the half-million gallon water storage tank, made numerous improvements and got the lost water under control. 

               When we started, we were pumping --- the first month was five million gallons for 160 customers.  We've gotten that down to now where we pump less than that for 800 customers.  So we've done a lot over the years.  And it's been rewarding but yet also very challenging, because it's not been financially rewarding.

Q.           Jefferson Utilities never made money?

A.           Not as the whole company, no.

Q.           Mr. Snyder, you've hung up on an easel a map that's titled Jefferson County Zoning Map.  It appears to be somewhat the same map that we marked earlier.  But did you obtain this map?  And if so, explain what it is.

A.           Well, it's a map that Dewberry prepared.  It think probably it may have been an expansion on their original zoning map.  And it has some more information on it.  It has a location of most of the subdivisions in the county.  And I took that map and augmented it by adding subdivisions that I knew --- or sort of updating it, you might say, adding subdivisions that were presently proposed that may not have been on that map so that one could see where those were.  And the large print numbers in the purple, I think it is, are the subdivisions that I put on a spreadsheet.  Because I did this in conjunction with developing a spreadsheet of sewer demand so that the Commission could have an idea of what the actual demand for sewer is in Jefferson County from projects that are real.  Some that are under construction, some that are only in preliminary engineering, somewhere in between.

Q.           Now, before we get to that, Mr. Snyder, I want you to get up and come over here and I want you to show the Commission where Jefferson Utilities currently provides water service as a regulated utility.

A.           Well, we started out --- this is Walnut Grove right here.  That was the first system we bought.  So we were fortunate to get that to be expanded to serve in 1997.  It was expanded to serve Breckenridge here, Cambridge and Breckenridge being to the east of it.  Cambridge to the south and Briar Run to the west.  The tank that we built was located on the highest elevation in Briar Run.  That system has been expanded now and we started a new system at Meadowbrook, which is right here. And that system grew.  It supplies Gap View and Sheridan and the Job Corps.  We bought three systems --- well, we stayed in a valley here. 

               We bought the Shenandoah Junction System and we --- finally, this Commission approved six years ago our purchase of the Burr/Bardane Industrial Park Water System.  We finally secured approval to do that.  Those systems, the Burr/Bardane Park System, which is here, and the Shenandoah Junction System, here, were connected by a 12-inch main, which was a project approved by the Commission, undertaken about three years ago.  So those two are connected.  That provided fire protection for Jefferson High School here and the new ninth grade school here. 

               That system has been extended down to serve Harvest Hills, the development here.  The Burr/Bardane System is proposed to extend to serve Blackford Village, Tackley Mill, and Jefferson Orchard.  On the mountain, back in the year 2000 ---.

Q.           Now, what is the mountain?

A.           Well, that may be a rather too common term to use in West Virginia.  But basically, in Jefferson County, we only have one mountain, and it's the Blue Ridge.  So we call --- references to the mountain mean the Blue Ridge. 

               That area has actually been subdivided quite a lot, as you can see by all these small lines.  This area down to the south is generally Shannondale and a couple surrounding communities, a very large community started back in the 50s.  Has no public water or sewer.  And then three communities here that we bought water systems in, they were all existing systems.  Keyes Ferry Acres, being one, another one, Harpers Ferry Campsites, and then the third, Westridge Hills. 

               Those three systems are, quite honestly, plagued with a lot of problems.  We continued to try to improve them.  We're still seeking a remedy with the Staff, I might add, to try to get the moratoriums listed in those areas and improve them.  One of our plans would have been if we got this main coming down that's now at Sheridan to go down by Old Standard and across the river into this area.  That's a fairly substantial, costly project.  But not too long, actually.

Q.           Is it fair to say that you have a good deal of experience in the contracting business in the county and also in the public utility business in the county?

A.           Yes.  I would say that's fair to say.  And I've been kept abreast of the sewer --- the issues surrounding the sewer dilemma for a number of reasons.  I have been a developer in respect to Briar Run, when we first did this, subsequently sold the option to Marcus Enterprises after it was half --- the project was half completed.  And I participated in a group we call Jefferson County Citizens for Economic Preservation.  It's basically a group of developers that has sought to hang together against the forces against growth that are arrayed against us.  So for that reason, and I've worked closely with most of the developers in the county, so I guess I've come to know more than most people would about the dilemmas they all face, most of them face. 

Q.           Now, have you undertaken, recently, to study and collect your knowledge about proposed developments in and around Charles Town and Jefferson County?

A.           Yes.  Actually, in preparing for this hearing.  It, you know, like a lot of things, you'd think this would be something I might otherwise have done just because of the basic knowledge I have.  But in preparing for this, I wanted to be able to sit down each of these projects, what their EDUs were, their demand, where they were, who was serving them, and where they would likely get service.  So I did that and prepared a spreadsheet of those projects. 

Q.           I hand you a multi-page document on legal-sized paper and ask you if this is the spreadsheet that you prepared in preparation for this hearing?A.            Yes, it is.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have the zoning map marked for identification as Old Standard next number?

                              (Old Standard Exhibit Number 22

                              marked for identification.)

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              Mr. Chairman, we would like to have extra copies of that map made available to the other parties.

OFF RECORD DISCUSSION

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Could we have the spreadsheet marked as Old Standard Exhibit Number 23?

                              (Old Standard Exhibit 23 marked for

                              identification.)

OFF RECORD DISCUSSION

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Okay.  Mr. Snyder, why don't you start at the top of this exhibit and tell us what you've done and tell us what it says?

A.           I could point to each of these on the map, but I don't know --- I'll be glad to do that if it's helpful.  But basically, the name of the developments in the left column, starting with Aspen Green, that's a 200-acre development on the Roderick farm on Flowing Springs Road, proposed by Morris Gladhill.  Bellair is a development that was approved by the Planning Commission and is presently under construction.  It's 304 units. 

               Bon Air --- and these are alphabetized in order --- Alex Rommy's (phonetic) development on Route 340, it's being engineered and it was actually engineered for a Lowe's store that did not happen as his first anchor project.  Breckenridge East is BC Partners.  That was directly across the road from Breckenridge on my map there.  Breckenridge was one of the first projects that we were able to partner with as Jefferson Utilities to get that housing development fund project underway, which paid for the tank.  The first part of Breckenridge was 282 lots.  Breckenridge North, which we served with water, was a 30-couple lot project.  But the middle project, Breckenridge East, is 697 lots, is fully engineered, was turned down by the Planning Commission last year.  One of the specified reasons being lack of sewer capacity. 

               Bridgefort Business Park is a partially-built park already in the City of Ranson.  Butler Farm is a farm owned by a friend of mine, Bob Butler, which is sandwiched between the Roderick Property and the Breckenridge East Development.  Burr/Bardane Industrial Park is the industrial park in the middle of the county where we're purchasing the water system. 

               Buglers Rest is Gene Capriotti's property which adjoins on Standard.  Briar Run is the site of our water tank and the other partnering entity for the original Flowing Springs project.  Cambridge is the third entity developing with the housing and development fund project. And I should point out that both Briar Run and Cambridge are presently being restricted in their rate of growth by limits of sewer capacity.  County Green is a project of Gene Capriotti and Lou Athey.  It was held up --- has been in legal disputes with sewer capacity over the last year and a half or so. 

               Daniels Forest is a fully engineered, 200 --- or 192 lot subdivision proposed by Ed Smariga.  That project is before --- in litigation before the Supreme Court.  Another one of the facts facing development in Jefferson County is that most all projects are litigated to some level.  And it's oftentimes to the Supreme Court.  Forest View is the second project on the same property, the original 300-acre tract Roderick Farm. Harvest Hills, Arcadia Development, that project is under construction.  The second phase of it is delayed for the lack of sewer.  And it had the misfortune to have to go to the Supreme Court to get --- to be allowed to go forward.  It's a Duffield --- served by Shenandoah Junction System, as I pointed out before.  Harris Comstock is a small property that's proposed for affordable housing along Route 9. 

               Holiday Inn Express is a project built by a fellow from Virginia, Carl Owens.  He has been held up for the biggest part of a year now for lack of sewer capacity, even after he poured the floors.  Jefferson Crossing on Flowing Springs Road is under construction.  It's an expansion of an existing shopping center, but does not have adequate sewer capacity for its full

build-out. 

               Locust Knoll is a project that actually was started construction.  It's fully engineered.  Construction started last spring, I guess, and then when the owner became aware of this capacity crisis and did not have capacity, they stopped the project.  So it's been lying idle since then.

               Old Standard is the property that you've heard referenced here, where the plant would be located, proposed to be located.  Norborne Glebe is a large project served by the District, but in the City of Charles Town. It's developed by a company called Arcadia Development Company, and they presently have property that can't be built upon because of lack of sewer capacity, even though the roads are finished.  Sheridan, LLC, of course, is the subject of this hearing and is painfully being held up for lack of sewer.  Thorn Hill One and Two are both --- Thorn Hill is completely engineered for phase one and going through the Planning Commission.  Phase Two is being engineered.  Of course, both need sewer. 

               American Acreage --- these next --- those projects were all in the City of Ranson --- or in the Jefferson County Public Service District.  And in this yellow block, I should say, at the bottom of page two there, I totaled the number of EDUs that are still needed.  The first total is the total in the projects and the second total is those that are still on lots to be built upon.  So that's 6,262 lots.  And in those blocks to the right of that, I separated that demand into the watersheds so that the Commission could see with respect to the main watersheds in Jefferson County, in the Charles Town/Ranson area, where each of these projects was located relative to the sheds. 

               On my page three, I had the various projects.  Weston Group of Investors --- and these projects are all in the City of Ranson, a property which has been annexed to Ranson.  That is --- American Heritage is known as the Wysong (phonetic) neighborhood, Wysong Farm and Stanley Dunn's farm, an assigned farm.  And it's presently being engineered and has been in a planning stage for probably over a year.  Blackford Village is the project across from Bardane Industrial Park.  And its number of EDUs shown there as the commercial part of it. 

               Charles Town Racing, an allowance for 100 EDUs there.  Some of this I developed from also information I got from both the PSD and the City of Ranson, but I don't think either of them had any allowance showing for this, but needless to say, the Charles Town Racing is continuing to build and continuing to demand sewer capacity, even though it doesn't start new rooftops that are easily counted like a housing development. 

               Fairfax Crossing South is a commercial development at 264 EDUs.  Flowing Springs, or Fairfax Crossing Residential is another 500.  Flowing Springs neighborhood, again, is Weston Group of Investors.  That's just to the south of Briar Run.  It's planned for 450 units.  Jefferson Orchard Business Park is planned for 700.  Lakeland Place, that's a development that's virtually complete, with waterlines, sewerlines, paving, electric, everything, curb and gutter and pavement.  It will have 628 units.  There's like 148 there that are virtually complete. 

               Potomac Marketplace is a shopping center along the Charles Town Bypass.  It's a 400,000-square foot shopping center.  And the grading for it is just mammoth. And that's all been undertaken with a discomforting lack of sewer capacity.  And obviously, an expectation that that will be met.

               The Shenandoah Springs Neighborhood is a project on the 94-acre Palmer/Boyd Farm, former Palmer/Boyd Farm. And it was started last year.  A substantial amount of grading done and utilities installed.  And then the project was stopped because of this lack of sewer capacity.  Spring Hills is a development that was planned many years ago.  It was fully engineered, but the developer is waiting on a resolution of some other issues in that general neighborhood.  It's adjacent to the American Heritage Neighborhood.  Tackley Mill is the residential part of the Blackford Farm.  And it has 1,410 EDUs.

               So from this table, you'll see that the remaining lots --- demand for lots in Ranson, I put it at 6,723 lots. 

               Moving on to the City of Charles Town on page four, I've listed each of the developments there.  Craig Hill Estates is a relatively small development done by Arcadia Development.  It's half built out.  Huntfield with its --- you heard here discussed by Green Vest is a proposed 3,200-lot build-out, having approximately 3,000 left to be built.  Samuel Station is a townhouse project. I put that at 80 EDUs.  I actually learned, after I did this, that was a mistake.  It's only about 25.  However, the same developer told me he had another 200-unit project which is not on this list. 

               Jefferson High School --- South Jefferson High School, I should say, is the county's second high school. It is proceeding and is officially under construction.  However, it's relying on the Charles Town capacity for its service as well.  Venton Farms is another project proposed by Green Vest.  And its number of EDUS at 700 makes the Charles Town future demand at 3,882 lots. 

               The two projects that are served by other entities --- Skyline Farms is a project by a fellow named Steve Mitchell.  And it's approximately 60 lots and it's served by Willow Springs Public Service Wastewater Treatment Plant, as is Windmill Crossing.  And that's a misnomer.  That should say Windmill Crossing, LLC, instead of Skyline Farms.  My typo.  I guess I should have caught that.  And it's approximately 200 EDUs.  It's a combination of townhouses and commercial along Route 340. 

               So when you total all these down, I assess the grand total future sewer capacity needed from developments that we know about today that are actively proposing development pursuing design and construction is 17,127 EDUs.  Translating that into required treatment plant capacity at a design on 180 gallons per day, and that's a relatively conservative number, because you can go all over the place with that number.  The Health Department's number's 280 gallons per household.  However, even at the conservative number, that puts the required capacity of 3,082,000 gallons per day, shortfall as we are here today.  And then you can see these --- they way I've spread the flows, that the biggest of those flows are in Abbott's Run and Flowing Springs, at just over a million gallons a day in Flowing Spring and 1.2 million in Abbott's Run. 

               The other watershed being Elk Branch, which is out where Shenandoah Junction is and where Harvest Hills is, and Cattail Run, which is where a couple of these projects are.  And actually, the racetrack actually starts the headwaters of Cattail Run.

Q.           Which of these watersheds is the Sheridan project in?

A.           In Flowing Spring.

Q.           Okay.  Have you got some visuals you'd like to share with the Commission?

A.           Yes, I took a lot of photos of each of the --- or not a lot of photos --- one photo, generally, of each of these --- not all of these developments.  But some of the developments that are being stopped for the need of wastewater treatment.  Because I thought it would be helpful if the Commission could see what these projects really look like and that they do --- are real.  They're not just some kind of misrepresentation of the facts. 

Q.           I'm going to hand you photograph number one.  It says ten Shenandoah Springs Subdivision.  And tell us, did you take these pictures?

A.           Yes, I did take them, actually just last weekend.

Q.           And did you take the pictures that we went through earlier, of Sheridan and of the Old Standard property and the wastewater treatment plant site?

A.           Yes, I did.  I took all of them.  There are 23 in total.Q.              Okay.  All right.  Tell us about the picture that's just been circulated.

A.           Well, Shenandoah Springs is one of the developments on this list.  It's 361 units, if my memory serves me correctly.  This shows it's a 94-acre tract.  This picture covers probably about 40 acres of it, what you can see there.  It looks like scattered weeds and rough dirt, and that's because the construction, at this point, they've come back in and knocked the weeds down, basically. 

               But if you see that one rectangular object in the center of the picture to the left a little bit, that's a stormwater inlet.  So there are --- there's stormwater pipes laid here.  This community would be served by Jefferson Utilities with water.  So we've inspected the waterlines in this project and there are several thousand feet of waterlines already laid.  And similarly, there's several thousand feet of sewer and storm sewer and even electrical conduit. 

               So there's a lot of investment here, although it looks like just a scarred field.  But I'm sure the developer's feeling some significant pain for his investment lying there. 

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              Are you saying that this --- the lack of sewer facilities is the only thing stopping this development from moving forward?

A.           Absolutely.  And the developer's name is Fred Spain.  It operates as West End Group of Companies.  And I'm sure if you were to talk to him, he would give you a sad tale of his reality he's faced with this, because you know, I guess it's strange.  I feel like that, as a part of the development community in Jefferson County, I, as well as a lot of other people were a little bit asleep at the switch.  Because what happened, for the areas in this Flowing Spring area, where all this development is taking place, back in 1997, when we first did this Flowing Spring project with the Housing Development Fund, that the Commission approved, there was an assumption, because, in fact, there were two projects.  There was the water project that I alluded to for Jefferson Utilities.

And there was the sewer project for the Jefferson County Public Service District.  And what the project did was replaced almost all of the sewer line in Walnut Grove.  And that was a very good thing, because it had severe infiltration problems.  So that project covered that. 

               And it also provided an upgrade to allow for service to be extended to Briar Run, to Cambridge, and to Breckenridge, and built this Breckenridge Pump Station that you've heard testified to today.  That pump station then had the capacity to push the flow back to Charles Town.  Unfortunately, that project was intended to be the first phase of a bigger project.  What was intended --- Penntree designed that.  They designed large-diameter collector sewer to start at Flowing Springs Road and flowed down to Breckenridge.  And it's --- oh, I don't know, several thousand feet through that distance, with the intention being fully to go ahead and extend that project to a treatment plant in the Millville Area. 

               Unfortunately, we weren't watching.  And for the next four years, very little happened.  The people that run the PSD Board now were not on that board.  And unfortunately, one of those members of that Board, I believe his goal was to assure that nothing happened on his watch.  And it didn't.  So that brought us to this sad state of affairs.  And people invested money with he expectation of having sewer, and suddenly, it wasn't there.  And it's been extremely painful for a lot of people. 

                              COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY:

                              Thank you. 

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Mr. Snyder, I'm going to hand you a picture labeled 12, proposed Holiday Inn Express site. 

A.           This is another one of those projects I referred to that's on the list.  This is a 146-room proposed motel.  The construction, most of this concrete was poured last summer, last fall.  And then in the late fall, they decided to stop construction because they came to the realization that there wasn't sewer capacity.  And in fact, you may have heard their name mentioned before in that reference to the PSC moratorium case.  They filed exceptions to that case that may or --- may be before the Commission.  I'm not sure right now.  But they were the party that filed exceptions because they were the party that was --- sort of drew the straw, if you will, because they were one of the late ones to come and ask for capacity.  So out of that bundle of capacity that Charles Town had left that was divvied between the developers that were all clamoring for it, they didn't get any.  So they were --- they didn't have sewer.  So they stopped this project in the state that you see it there in this photo.  

                              COMMISSIONER SHAW:

                              That's the one Mr. Kable testified about earlier, that the exceptions were taken eight to nine months ago?

A.           That's right.  Mr. Kable, yes.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, before we get too far behind, may we mark the zoning map as Old Standard Exhibit 22 if we haven't already, the spreadsheet as 23, I believe we've got that.  Picture number ten, Shenandoah Springs, as number 24, picture number 12, the Holiday Inn, as Exhibit Number 25?

                              (Old Standard Exhibits 24 and 25 marked

                              for identification.)

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              So marked.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           I'm going to hand you now, Mr. Snyder, a picture labeled 13, Lakeland Place and ask you to describe that picture.

A.           This is a picture of the virtually complete Lakeland Place project of 148 lots, residential lots.  You can see, as I said before, just curb and gutter and all the utilities.  And that little white tank in the background is Jefferson's water tank, in fact.  You can see it's been seeded and mulched.  There's a portion to the left of the photo that's still under construction, but even it has most all the utilities in place and would --- actually, this developer was going to use a drip field as an alternate sewer capacity method, even though that you can see, this is very close to the rest of the development happening in Jefferson County, it's labeled on this map.  But this property is right across the railroad from Shenandoah Downs, which is the one of the two racetrack properties.  It's literally across the street from Briar Run and Flowing Springs and actually, the front of this, which you'll see in another photo is the --- the front of the Briar Run Property has become the Potomac Marketplace.  So these projects are all immediately adjacent to each other.  But because of the lack of sewer capacity, they went to this rather dire method to use a re-circulating sand filter and drip field to obtain treatment.  And I believe, I've been told by the developer, that he's now intending to partner with the City in some form to help support the upgrade of the City's plant in return for capacity for this development. That's Lakeland Place.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              If we haven't already, may we have that marked as Number 26?

                              (Old Standard Exhibit 26 marked for

                              identification.)

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Yes.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              May we have marked for identification as Number 27 a photograph labeled 14, Potomac Marketplace? 

                              (Old Standard Exhibit 27 marked for

                              identification.)

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Mr. Snyder, explain this exhibit.

A.           That's the Potomac Marketplace project proposed by Carl Freeman and Associates.  As I said earlier, it's a 400,000-square foot shopping center.  The big building you see under construction there, the most of it is the Weis Market.  Down to the left --- or I'm sorry, to the right of the page, there's an area that's actually bigger than the area you see here.  It's a little bit deceiving, optically.  But that area down to the right is going to be the Home Depot store, a very large Home Depot.  And there's some more room up on the left, off the sheet here to the left.  And of course, as usual, there's going to be an array of small stores associated with those anchor stores.  That, again, is Jefferson Utility's water tank in the background, for reference. 

               And this project, technically, without the Charles Town upgrade, there is not sufficient sewer capacity today for this project.  So it takes quite a leap of faith to build a project in Jefferson County today. 

Q.           I hand you a photograph labeled 15, proposed Bellair Subdivision.

A.           This is --- the Bellair Subdivision is just across the Country Club Road from the first phase of Breckenridge, which I had talked about before.  This developer, Wormald Companies, in Frederick, Maryland, are the developer of it.  It's a 304-lot subdivision, or will be.  The developer in a zest to get the sewer capacity, actually applied for these permits for these houses.  And in accordance with the agreement, to keep the permits, he actually built these houses as you see them, even though he doesn't have the roads or the sewer.  You can see the ground humped up in front of these houses is for chuting for the sewer line. 

               So this project's underway, but there's been --- Wormald Companies are a very successful developer in Frederick Maryland, so I think they certainly have the wherewithal to build this project quickly.  But they, similarly, don't know which way to go for sewer capacity.

There's a case, I think, just filed at the Commission here about an MBR plant for this particular development as well.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have the Bellair photograph marked for identification as Old Standard Exhibit 28?

                              (Old Standard Exhibit Number 28

                              marked for identification.)

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              So marked. 

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              And may we have marked for identification as Old Standard Number 29 a photograph labeled number 16, Breckenridge Subdivision?

                              (Old Standard Exhibit Number 29

                              marked for identification.)

A.           I took this photo.  This project, as I said, was one of the early three that partnered with us and the District for the Flowing Springs project.  It was 282 lots.  You're seeing the whole north side of it there along Country Club Road.  It's a fairly attractive subdivision.  You can see the quality of homes there.  Those homes in Jefferson County are basically all going to be over $300,000 now.  The side of the road on which I was standing when I took this photo is Breckenridge East.

So right where I was standing is the project that was stopped for lack of sewer capacity.

               I might also say about these projects, another reason that I've become keenly interested is because as Jefferson Utilities, I can't sell these people water if they don't have sewer.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           I hand you a photograph labeled Number 17, Briar Run Subdivision. 

A.           Yes.  This is the Briar Run Community.  This is the most recent phase that's under construction there.  You can see the roads are graded, sewer and water in, and the houses being built.  It's not yet --- doesn't have curbs or pavement in.  And these houses are being built under the remaining number of EDUs that were allocated as a part of that settlement of the case that allocated that 100,000-some gallons that Charles Town had available last year.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have the number 17 Briar Run photo marked for identification as Old Standard Exhibit 30?

                              (Old Standard Exhibit Number 30

                              marked for identification.)

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              So marked.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              And may we have the next one, labeled 18 Jefferson Crossing, marked for identification as 31?

                              (Old Standard Exhibit Number 31

                              marked for identification.)

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              So marked.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           What is Jefferson Crossing, Mr. Snyder?

A.           This is an extension of an existing shopping center.  You can see behind the construction equipment that beige building is the existing Jefferson Crossing.  This is a pretty substantial addition to an existing, heavily-used, occupied commercial shopping center.  And it is planned for a number of things.  These first buildings, obviously, since they got permits, have sewer capacity.  But they're without the Charles Town capacity expansion, it would not be nearly enough capacity to serve the build-out of this phase two, which is basically the second half of the shopping center you see in the back.  And it's --- where I was standing, the Charles Town Races is directly to my right, which you can't see here.  And well, that's the most notable thing.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have marked for identification the photograph that Mr. Jonkers is passing out now, labeled County Green?

                              (Old Standard Exhibit 32 marked for

                              identification.)

A.           This is a picture of one of the streets where houses are under construction in County Green.  County Green is about a 140-lot townhouse subdivision.  It has just about built out.  I believe there's some 40 or so lots left to be built upon.  And that's tabulated in this spreadsheet as well.  This, the developer of this project is Gene Capriotti and Lou Athey and they have been involved.  And Gene complains that he spent $100,000 on litigation in order to secure sewer capacity for this project.  And it is along the Charles Town Bypass.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have marked for identification as Old Standard Exhibit 33 a photograph labeled 20, Norborne Glebe subdivision?

                              (Old Standard Exhibit 33 marked for

                              identification.)

A.           Norborne Glebe is one on the list that I had.  These are, again, fairly upper-end subdivisions, housing in excess of $300,000.  You can see this shows an area that is paved with gutter and --- curb and gutter.  Obviously, with sewer as you can see and with water.  And you can see the fire hydrant.  But there is not sewer capacity available for these lots.  So the developers told me directly that they cannot get permits on these lots today.  And yet, they've spent the money for all the infrastructure to otherwise occupy them. 

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have marked for identification as Old Standard Number 34 a photograph labeled 21, Huntfield Subdivision?

                              (Old Standard Exhibit 34 marked for

                              identification.)

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              So marked.

A.           You know, obviously, Huntfield is the single largest development in Jefferson County.  And I thought to try to give the Commission a feel for what Huntfield was like, I took this picture.  It's not particularly --- it's probably not putting their best foot forward, because you know, you could look at the entrance, which is more attractive.  But from this angle, I could get a lot of the houses in it.  So that's why I took it this way.  And it shows the sections that are presently under construction.  Some of what's already built is off the right of the photo.  But there are something --- and Jane Arnett probably knows far more accurate than me, but there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 houses there today.

               Actually, I should say Sue Lawton probably knows that, too, because the District's been their sewer provider. 

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have a photograph labeled 22 South Jefferson High School marked for identification as Old Standard Exhibit 35?

                              (Old Standard Exhibit 35 marked for

                              identification.)

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              So marked.

A.           This site is adjacent to Huntfield.  The photograph I took there, if you were to go off the left of this --- from the left of where I was standing, you'd face the photo I took there previously.  This is, I believe, about a 50-acre site that you're seeing a

big --- the majority of.  And that land was donated as a proffer from Huntfield to the Board of Education.  It's not totally philanthropic because there's an impact fee in Jefferson County for education, so the developer gets a credit against that impact fee, and that impact fee's $7,200 per home today, for education only. 

               But this is the site of that school.  It's supposed to be graded by the developer.  And actually, this first phase of the work was ENS ponds.  Curiously, I might add, that's our --- Snyder Environmental's construction equipment because we were the contractor for the Board of Education to do that ENS, you know, bid.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           What did you say the impact fee was on each new house in Jefferson County?

A.           $7,200.

Q.           Just for education?

A.           That's correct.  And actually, there's a lot of opinion by the opponents to growth that that should be much higher.

Q.           Is that imposed by the County or the City of Charles Town or by whom?

A.           It was imposed by the Jefferson County Commission.  It is county-wide, though.  It's effective in the municipalities as well.  There is some debate, though, of how that's going to be collected in the cities.  But I think it's fairly well assured that it will be collected.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, may we have marked for identification as Old Standard Exhibit Number 37 a photograph labeled ---.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Thirty-six (36).

                              (Old Standard Exhibit 36 marked for

                              identification.)

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              This is 36.  Labeled 23, Buglers Rest, Bloomery Road.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Thank you.  I'm sorry, I didn't keep up with all the movement back and forth.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              The one I've just handed out is 23, Buglers Rest, and we'd like that marked for identification as Old Standard 36.

(Old Standard Exhibit Number 36

marked for identification.)

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              So marked.

A.           This is a photo of the site and the initial road installed by Gene Capriotti for the subdivision he calls Buglers Rest.  And it's proposed for 150 townhouse units.  And it's at the north end of the Old Standard Quarry property, immediately adjacent to it, contiguous with it.

                              MR. FAULKNER:

                              I'm going to object to this one, Mr. Chairman, mainly because while the others have gone through the approval processes of the County and its legitimate argument that sewer is a debate, this one has not been proposed in any way, shape or manner to the county government.  And therefore, someone going forward --- putting this into the rest, there could be some confusion as to which ones of these projects are truly being held up by sewer, and which of these projects are still nowhere near being even ready to be submitted into the approval pipeline of the County.  I mean, we're starting to back into a discussion of local zoning issues now, not just utility issues. 

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, I'm sure that Mr. Snyder can answer whatever questions Mr. Faulkner might have about the status of any of these projects on Cross Examination.  His objection is not a reason not to mark and admit an exhibit.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              We'll deny and we will admit this for whatever weight exists.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, finally, I ask that there be marked for identification a photograph labeled Number 11, proposed Route 9 upgrade.

BY ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

Q.           Mr. Snyder, explain what that picture depicts.

A.           Well, this depicts the sorry state of affairs that the road you see is the Charles Town Bypass.  Those rebar with the white covers on them and the I-beams driven in the ground were the start of a bridge in the interchange.  And the fill that you see pictured in the background behind the road is the highway fill.  And this area's been graded.  The roadway extends just to the left of the treeline that you see and goes out for a mile or so toward the river.  This work was done by a Department of Highways contract for the dualization of Route 9.  That stage of it to go from the bypass to the top of Blue Ridge Mountain.  That project was held up in litigation by just a couple litigants.  And its been held up for three years.  And the poignancy of this is that in talking with the PSD staff, one of their suggestions to me was that this --- a Flowing Springs Plant could be built by the PSD in three years.  And I'm sorry that I --- I think this points out that even after a contract was let on a state project, it's been stopped for three years by the opponents to growth. 

Q.           Now, you don't offer this as --- to demonstrate that a road project has been stopped for lack of sewer service; do you?

A.           No, no.  Just to demonstrate that it's much easier to screw things up than to get them done. 

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Your Honor, I'm about to go into a new area and we can launch into that, or as you wish.  We're going to talk now a little bit about cost estimates of this plant and we have some testimony. 

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              I have a quick question on your Exhibit 23, your spreadsheet.  I just want to make sure I understand what I'm looking at.  In the column that totals up the 17,127, that total represents EDUs for which there has been no work started; is that correct?

A.           No.  It represents total EDUs for which there has been a proposal to develop property.  Now, some of that property --- 148 of those in Lakeland Place are virtually finished, for example.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              Thank you.  So it represents a solid demand for sewage services?

A.           Right.  Now, it doesn't represent --- I'm sure there are projects out there in somebody's mind that I don't know about and the utilities don't know about.  And it doesn't count then.

                              COMMISSIONER STAATS:

                              Okay.  In the column to the left of that, which you didn't total up, it comes to about 18,000.  That is in addition to the 17,000, or is it inclusive?

A.           It's inclusive.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Okay.  Thank you very much.  I suggest we break for the day.  I believe we will start at 9:30 in the morning.

                              ATTORNEY MCDONALD:

                              Very well, Your Honor.

                              CHAIRMAN MCKINNEY:

                              Thank you.

* * * * * * * *

HEARING CONTINUED AT 4:47 P.M.